Building a Succession Plan for Law Firm Exit Success

[00:00:00] Speaker A: When should somebody start exit planning? If you don't have your exit plan? The answer is now. Really. You want to build your business with the exit plan. Truly like known. If you do that, you are going to build a firm that's going to be more sellable, but also it just gives you that comfort of when I solve a problem, I'm solving it because it's really helping my business become more valuable, like it's part of a longer term dividend. Foreign. [00:00:38] Speaker B: Most firms survive, the best ones scale. Welcome to the Managing Partners podcast, where law firm leaders learn to think bigger. I'm Kevin Daisy. Let's jump in. What's up everyone? Thank you so much for tuning in to another episode of the Management Parts podcast. Kevin Daisy here and excited to have a friend of mine back on the show. He joined me a little while back, probably over a year ago. You might know him, you might not, but Tom and Fescue is on the show and he has a new book coming out. So we'll be talking about that. We'll be talking about how to build a great company, a good law firm, what's your options for exiting and all this kind of thing. So. So Tom, welcome back. [00:01:22] Speaker A: Yeah, thanks, appreciate it, Kevin, good to be back. Good to catch up with you as always. [00:01:26] Speaker B: Yeah. So anyone, listen, me and Tom have been talking, shooting the shit, if you will, for the last half hour or more. And I was like, well, I guess we'll record a podcast here at some point. But that's just, that's who Tom is. He's a good guy. We have a lot of in common, know a lot of folks in the industry and you know, I feel like we, you know, we see eye to eye as far as how to run a good business and constantly working on that and sharing that, you know, that's what this podcast is about, is how we can run better law firms and better companies and enjoy doing it. So excited to talk today. So introduce yourself first for folks that might not know who you are. Tell us a little bit about your background and your company and then we'll kind of jump into this new book you have coming out. [00:02:12] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. Well, thanks again, Kevin, and always great to catch up. As I tell everybody, it's like, you know, the space of where you're working with law firm owners, you're helping law firms, it's a small pond still. So it's always great when you meet, you know, good people doing good things and then you're able to reconnect on a more frequent basis as the you know, pond potentially grows to a lake and otherwise. But my name is Tom Linfesti. I'm an attorney, CPA by degree. About 13 years ago, I had the idea to start the Law Practice Exchange. And so I'm also CEO and founder of the Law Practice Exchange. Really the goal was to help give law firm owners to lawyers options that were available for other professional business owners like accounting, dental, you know, other, you know, normal industry business. And really that's to build a business and have, you know, that value be monetized if, when you're ready to exit, right? And that exit could come because one of life's, what if events happens, right, A health scare otherwise, or it's that you're just ready to exit, right? Your time has come to do that. It could be when you're 35 years old as a founder, or it could be when you're, you know, 75 years old. But the overall goal is to really help on that process. Build a marketplace. Was the goal to really allow law firm owners to have a proven process to go through and exit, find that next generation buyer and monetize the value and really preserve the legacy of what you've built. So that's what we've been doing over the last several years. We have the marketplace, which is I think about 130 active seller listings right now of law firms for sale. We've got 2,500 buyers and sellers in there that are focused on connecting and making deals. And then we do private market advisory to help on larger scale deals of where we're seeing private equity investment and other aspects. So it's been exciting and it's changed a lot over the last couple years and excited to kind of recap and catch up with you and talk about it. [00:04:17] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. And I love the work that you're doing. And you know, there's a lot of folks out there, not just law firms, but you know, especially law firms is it's kind of your identity, it's your life, it's, you know, being a lawyer. But then, you know, now you own this, this firm, this company. There's all the things you have to do to figure out, like, okay, now I'm the lawyer, now I got employees, now I have a company. Now I got responsibilities. And then making it all work, you know, all the aspects of it. I can always reference the book Traction over top of my head here that breaks down, you know, the different aspects of a business. And so you got to get a lot of things right. And you know, lawyers already are coming out the gate with mostly not having that business experience. But then you get into like, what do I do with this if I need to exit, walk away legacy, you know, you want to, you want to sell it, leave it to your employees. You know, I think a lot of, I know a lot of lawyers are not really sure what their options are. I talk to a lot of lawyers all the time on the marketing side. They're like, kevin, we're going to change the name of the firm to take my name off of it so that I can sell it one day. And it's like, you know, that doesn't matter for one, but you know, that's, that's kind of their first thought of maybe one day I can, I can exit this thing. And so there's just so much there, education that's, that's lacking access. And again, with this podcast, it's all about trying to fill a lot of those holes leading up to an exit or just, you know, having a better life running your firm. And so, yeah, I just love what Tom's done and what he's created. And it is, it's unique to this market because again, I, I, I, I know a lot on the H Vac side and you know, home service companies, private equities all over the place and roll ups and purchases and all this stuff. But it's just, there's a lack of information out there for, for the legal field. So with that being said, let's, you know, tell us about the Exit or Exit Blueprint. When is that launching coming out? When can we have access to it? And let's maybe dive into a little bit about what is geared to help us, you know, help law firm owners do and learn. [00:06:37] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. The Exit Blueprint is the name of the book we have coming out on June 10th. So I think we're recording this the end of May. So depending on, you know, when the podcast episode gets released, hopefully it's there available on Amazon and everywhere flying off the shelves. Right. And going from there. But it's called the Exit Blueprint. It's the law firm owner's playbook for selling succession and life after law, which I'm a big believer of having that plan for. What are you going to do after you're a law firm owner? Right. To, to make sure you carry that forward and. Yeah, excited, Kevin. I mean, I put out a book years ago on succession planning, but I really, you know, the market has changed so much in the last couple of years of our market for buying and selling law Firms you mentioned private equity. Like, there's so many other things that have kind of reset the options that are available and really, to some degree, the process. So, you know, I've been at this for, you know, 13, 14 years. The goal was develop a proven process to give a law firm owner the option of do these steps, give yourself time, and you can exit your law practice for value. Right. You can find that next, as you said, internal candidate, you know, external, otherwise. And that's really what the exit blueprint's there for. It's to help you as a roadmap, prepare for whenever you're ready to exit. Or for some, it'll be your guide because you're really in the sale process right now and you need a guidebook or a reference manual to really look to and carry that forward. And so I would tell you, years ago when we wrote about succession planning, it was, you know, motivation. Hey, succession planning for your law firm, some basics. Now it's really a lot more of true market data and trying to give you the roadmap to either prepare or to go through a exit successfully. And even from the buy side, the data, I think you'll pick up on this if you're interested in buying and acquiring practice is hopefully pretty helpful. [00:08:36] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, that's, that's a huge point. Yeah, we, you can look at acquired and growing your firm and not just prepare to, to sell. Just want to add a thing. There is you, me and Tom were talking about this earlier, before we were recording, but and this is something that I'm 100% doing, is if you're preparing yourself to sell, that means you're getting your stuff in a, in a row. Like you're, you're, you're making sure everything's efficient and working at its, you know, optimal level, which means you have a much better firm, more profitable firm. And if you don't even sell right away or don't sell at all, life is better running a firm that way. And so this isn't, you know, just to help you sell next year or five years or whatever. It's just doing the right things to get yourself ready for it, which is going to lead to a better practice, better, you know, profit, better life anyway. So I just want to put that out there. That's like, if someone's like, I'll never sell, this is, you know, not what, not for me. [00:09:45] Speaker A: Right. [00:09:46] Speaker B: It doesn't just accomplish that. And if you want to sell, it's not like you want to sell next week or next year. Like it's you got a plan for this? [00:09:53] Speaker A: Yeah, I think overall I, you know, kind of relay this in the book but you know, the most successful sales were prepared years and years in advance. Not specifically looking at sale, but just building a better business that just also happens to be a more sellable business. Right. Because those things that you're going to invest in, to really invest in a good scalable, you know, less owner dependent maybe business. Right. Like start with marketing. Like if you're investing in marketing, like you and I were catching up on a lot of marketing, you know, pre recording and everything else. If, if you're focused on your law firm as a marketing element, like that's the first investment potentially into your model and, and showing that growth, that scalability. But also then it just gives you, you know, if you lay the foundation, you build from that. Right. The revenues are there, the financials there to kind of build scale. And if you build scale and you can start to delegate your way out of certain things as the owner and founder, like you start to get to that lifestyle law firm. And that's not a bad place. But it's also highly, you know, sought after from buyers and otherwise because you've proved it isn't just revolving around you. So I think that's the part, Kevin, is like those investments into your business can mean so much than more than just exit value. Right. More than just immediate income. You're going to see multiple returns on it. And that's a pretty exciting piece. [00:11:19] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean just, it makes sense, Right. I think I've met and talked to so many law firm owners and I got some that are clients in my mastermind that, you know, they haven't, some either have had that click like that moment of like, oh, you know, I can actually build this to do other things. Because when they all, most of them started, they're, they're the technician, they're the lawyer, they're the one that likes to do the legal work and then they now own a business and then some have this aha moment of ooh, I like the business part better. Craig Goldenfar, if you mentioned his name, he, he decided to be a CEO and not a lawyer. Right. And he loves the business aspect. He likes building it, growing it. He fell in love with that piece and not everyone's going to, but some I, I just know that they haven't even had like the, that switch in their mind of like this is a business like you know, one of the [00:12:20] Speaker A: coolest trends I think, you know, we're probably seeing too Is some of them, like being lawyers, right. Like practicing law, being a trial attorney, or, you know, doing this different piece. They still like that, that portion. But then they will also go and say, okay, I don't need to keep control over everything then, so I'll go hire a great CEO. Right. Or a firm administrator or an integrator. If you want to use the traction, like, whatever you're going to do, you're going to turn over some things to somebody else to do that traction, delegate to elevate. And I think that's a big part is if you can, you know, I was, you know, doing this for a while. I know that attorneys usually see things first in terms of risk. They don't always see things in terms of opportunity. Right. So the first, when you present something to them, they're going to say why it doesn't work, what could go wrong? And, you know, as a lawyer, like, law school teaches us, we read these case law, and you're like, oh, my gosh, horrible case facts. It leads to bad outcomes. Right. And when we see contracts in practice, we've never met a perfect contract. We're looking for errors. Right. When you see a case that's presented. So we're not always looking for the value or we're not looking for the opportunity. So it takes lawyers a little bit of time to do that. But I think that's the big part and it's been exciting for me. You know, Kevin, I'm sure you too, on the marketing side of, like, working with law firm owners that are able to give up control and start to feel the value or the opportunity that comes with it. Because giving up control is scary. But, like, once they do it and they're like, oh, man, like, I don't have to, like, I have, like free time or I have time to focus on what I am passionate about in the business and kind of carry that over. And then they see the business, like, improve and scale. I mean, that's the fun part. Right. And that's the part where you're building yourself a better business that happens to be a law firm. [00:14:12] Speaker B: Yeah. And, you know, and then you have choices there. Like, if you really just love the legal work and being a lawyer, you can stay doing that, but hire the other people. Right. Bring in the delegate and, you know, build out that C suite. I think most law firms are like, they don't even sees a C suite as even a thing for a law firm. Like, you just have the managing partner and then you have office manager and whatever. But no like these firms that get it. Like Craig at Gold Law has a full C suite, you know, just like any other business would have. And he fills the roles that he's good at and delegates everything else. Whatever his superpower is. Right. He. That's what he focuses all his energy and time on. And for him, that's marketing and vision and ideas. Like, he's just really good at that kind of stuff. He told me recently he bought an ice cream truck and he gives out free ice cream at all kinds of events. [00:15:09] Speaker A: Right. For free. [00:15:11] Speaker B: And it's wrapped with his law firm stuff on it. So he's passionate about doing that. But if it's the law, then you can still do that. [00:15:20] Speaker A: Yeah, I think that's the part too. It's just especially founders, attorneys, I mean, any founders. Because Kevin, you've dealt across the array, literally. But you know, overall, that aspect of, you know, it's really, you start this because you're maybe passionate on one area and then it grows and scales. You don't have to stay over everything and you don't have to be funneled. It really is meant to give you choice. And if you can build your law firm in a, you know, purposeful way, you get choice. And then you get to a point where you've just, you know, you've built a firm that hopefully is exit ready as well. Like, because you're not doing everything. Like the scariest thing too, that we have when buyers look at law firms to potentially acquire is when everything goes through the attorney, the founders, like literally. Right. Like the market. [00:16:11] Speaker B: Your evaluation goes way down that point. [00:16:14] Speaker A: Yeah. Your payment terms are going to be more adjusted. Right. There's just more risk that buyers are going to perceive of, you know, oh man, if I take this over and even though, you know they're going to stick around, I mean, there's just a risk that it's not going to transfer, it's not going to replay well, and so that, that's the part of, again, just getting back to where the market is today. Law firm owners have more options than ever. And so, you know, taking steps now you truly are investing in your business that you can monetize if you want to when you're good and ready right upon exit or, or just like what we're talking about. Enjoy it, have fun with it. Go buy ice cream trucks like Craig and you know, follow. Follow different exciting ideas and kind of find your role. But that's what makes it just more enjoyable than to be, you know, part of that scaled law firm or Anything else? [00:17:06] Speaker B: Yeah. And so a couple things. One I wanted to hit on just cause I mentioned it in the beginning when a law firm like comes to me and goes, oh, I didn't change the name. And for marketing or for SEO or AI search, it can be devastating sometimes. But change the name, get my name off of it. Like Jen Gore is a friend of mine. She changed hers to Atlanta personal injury before she exited. But she told me that she wished she didn't because she used the brand regardless of the name and she still did well. But she said, you know, she wish she actually hadn't done that. But what is there any truth of that? Your name, some random name, fictitious name, some states don't let you do it. But is there any advantage to doing that if you've run a great firm? [00:17:57] Speaker A: I was just doing a mastermind group last week. We were, you know, online doing that and that question popped up, right? Like I want to change my name. Anything else? And my can response is if your name has value, like you, you know, you were just saying like with Jen Gore, otherwise don't change it. Yeah, don't change it. Because it really has, whether it's digital value, right? Like the SEO value or the brand value or anything else from that side, it's just you're gonna lose value. And so law firms can transact. Now the, the challenge is if you built your firm around, you know, I'm John Smith and I'm going to build my firm around John Smith and Associates. Know that you're going to be selling John Smith, right? Like, sure, you know, you're going to be selling that, that's going to continue on that. That's a more focus to me of choosing the right successor or choosing the right buyer, finding the right fit than really a worry. Because lawyers like our legacy and if we built a legacy and we like that, we're proud of it, just find the right steward to carry that legacy on. But yeah, Kevin, I'm with you. I think, you know, the typical is if you just started out and you want to, you know, focus on a brand you really think is going to be something separate from your individual self. Absolutely. If you've already been, you know, 15, 20 years, you know, and built significant brand value and you're planning to change it tomorrow, I wouldn't do it. I truly wouldn't do it. You know, we've seen transaction after transaction, not really worried about it. It's about the brand that you've built, which is a huge valuation component, right? Like huge. Like where I say marketing, but like brand development, how unique your brand is, right? So if you're very unique and it's a strong brand and everything else, we'll figure out a way to transition it, right? [00:19:46] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. Good. Yeah, I'm on the same page of that, and I get that question often. And, you know, I think it's kind of funny. Like, some of the firms, you know, they barely started to. They've been around, but they just, they never really built up the brand or marketed. And so it's like, well, if you want to make that decision, now would be the time. Because if you're going to dump money and energy into it, you know, but, you know, are. There's not many firms out there that are that, in my opinion, that I've seen that are smaller, that, you know, has what it takes, I guess, to take it the next level. Are you willing to commit? And I think there's a lot of fear there too. Probably like, okay, yeah, look, if I read Traction or I talked to some. Some folks are like, know, look at the exit blueprint. There's a lot of things I got to get right, which means I got to head. Go head on with a lot of problems. Like, if you don't like problems, you know, it's, you know, owning a business is not. Not going to be good for you. You need to see problems as opportunities, right? Crap. Now I need a, you know, director of finance, which we just had to bring on. We need to go to a cruel account and we need to hire these extra people. We have to do these things. It's just problems are going to continue to ex, you know, to come up, but you need to view those as opportunities to fix. So anything you'd like to add to that as far as, like, you know, who has it within them to want to grow and scale to be valued, highly valued firm. [00:21:16] Speaker A: Yeah, I think you hit it exactly right. I mean, if you do not like problems that are going to challenge you every day, right? Even when everything's going right, there's always the problem. And when you seem to fix them all, you hit a new ceiling, right? And then there's this problem of getting, you know, over that, that ceiling and kind of going from there, but everything's gonna break, right? So, like, Kevin, you probably know this, like, from a marketing standpoint, if marketing just starts really rolling and whatever else, it's like intake breaks, right? [00:21:46] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. [00:21:47] Speaker A: So then you're like, oh, it's not working. Marketing's doing great, but intake's broken. And then if you fix intake, right, then it's like, okay, marketing, go, right? And then it's like, you know, go from there. But then it's like also your ops team, right? And your client care team and everything else that really comes through, you know, how do they break and go through it? So entrepreneurship. I've got a, you know, just graduated high school, you know, age son who thinks he wants to be an entrepreneur. Like that's what he wants to do. And the biggest thing I could tell him is you better love solving problems because that's really, you know, on a constant basis. That's what you're trying to figure out. And sometimes it's in that piece. But that's the part of, I think, I think more. More so now. And I think you would agree with this because we were just talking about, you know, like, the good people we get to see and we get to work with that are helping other law firm owners and everything else. There's more help out there to help you solve those problems as a law firm owner than ever before. Right. I mean, you and I were talking about masterminds, mastermind group we've been invited to and getting to spend time with, helping these lawyers solve problems, whether it's on exit planning, marketing culture. Right. Like other aspects out there that hopefully we can deliver value and other great people are. And so I think that's the part is the lifts to. To build a better business that our law firms are not what they were, you know, years ago. Right. To. To figure out and scale. I think it's more of really focusing on, you know, what is that plan? Do you know what that roadmap is? Giving yourself time. And then I would say the emotional check is, yeah, I'm a. I'm a lawyer entrepreneur. Well, are you an entrepreneur willing to invest, truly invest? Right. Not just your time? Because that's a trap for us lawyers. Like, we'll just invest our time endlessly and work ourselves to death. But invest your money and the commitment to, you know, scaling your law firm and, and I think, you know, that's the goal of again, through the exit blueprint or anything else. As we kind of mentioned, if you can do that, then. Then you're giving yourself just more fun, more options to really do it. But there's so much help now around. Like, I mean, I started practicing law in, you know, early 2000s, and they're just, I mean, masterminds. That's like, what is masterminds, Right? I mean, they just weren't really around or anything else. And so now just having these groups that are really there to help you solve is such a powerful thing. [00:24:15] Speaker B: No. Yeah. 100. There's so much help out there, access groups. I mean it's, there's an abundance. So yeah, if anyone listening is going, I don't know what to do or about this or this problem. Literally, it's, there's so many things to your fingertips. And then even like if you, if you met Tom, just to maybe go through Tom's program or connect with him, I bet he knows people at every stage and stuff along the way of that. He could refer to, you know, refer you to, hey, I'm struggling with this or struggling with that. Oh, I got someone that can probably help you. Same here. I got an intake specialist. That's all they do, you know, marketing outside of what I do, I got, I know all my competitors. I know people that do, you know, fractional CFO work, fractional CMO work, you name it. There's so much stuff out there and people want to help. You know, I think that's a great community. [00:25:13] Speaker A: Yeah. And I think it's just, you know, again, it's knowing, knowing the steps or process that really you want to go through. Right. And you know, that's the big thing I've asked, you know, I've been asked that question over and over again. You can ask it, but it's like, oh, when should somebody start exit planning? And I say, well, if you don't have your exit plan, the answer is now. Because really you want to build your business with the exit plan truly like known in mind. Right. And you know, that's the aspect is if you do that, you are going to build a better lifestyle firm. You are going to build a firm that's going to be more sellable. But also it just gives you that comfort of man, it's really cool when I solve a problem, I not just solving it so I can get through today, I'm solving it because it's really helping my business, you know, grow, become more valuable. Like it's part of a longer term dividend than just I, I put out some flyers today, right. And I, and I think emotionally like for us entrepreneurs and lawyers, like we need that emotional win of this is something I'm going through. But it's, it has a larger impact than just, you know, today's know, fire that I put out or otherwise. [00:26:20] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean it's a compound effect, right. It's. You have to start working on stuff today, stuff that might not be a problem even like in front of you today, but has to. You got to start working on it and get things figured out. And it's awesome to see, like, I have a small mastermind of law firm owners, but to see, like a new firm been around for two years or one year and they're like, oh, I just hired an associate and I just brought an admin assistant and I just outsourced some stuff for some AES that, you know, I didn't believe would be able to do anything for us. You know, I brought in AI for. For certain things to automate. So just watching them kind of go through that process and like chip away at, you know. [00:27:02] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:27:03] Speaker B: And then, you know, once you start doing that, it's like, there's wins and there's that progression and go, hey, where were you at a year ago? I think it's also hard to look back too. Like, where were we a year ago? Like, if I went back to think about it, man, there's so many different things that we've done, it's insane. We got 65 people plus now, and sometimes it's hard to remember that stuff. My wife would do this to me. I feel like we didn't do much last year. I'll go look at our Google Photos. I'm like, holy crap. Right? And I now I have a big screen in my kitchen and this rolls through photos of the family. [00:27:40] Speaker A: Yep. [00:27:41] Speaker B: And it's like, oh, crap. Yeah, I forgot we went to the Bamas. Oh, yeah. We went to ski in Breckenridge. We went. It's just like, wow, what. What we were not doing last year. It's so. It's just hard to remember some of the things and the wins. [00:27:52] Speaker A: Sometimes it is really hard to remember the wins. And especially, you know, when you live in. I mean, I think this is any business, but it's like what I talk to my team about and it's, you know, your day to day are going to be filled with like the problems, the challenges. Right. I mean, that's just. Even if you had all win and that last phone call was just, you know, it's. In our world, it's, you know, it's a law firm owner that's just disappointed they haven't found the right, you know, buyer yet. Right. And they've been at this three months, they would have thought, man, I should have a buyer in three months. When you're like, we told you it could take 12 to 18, right. But like, they're disappointed. They're emotional. They want, you know, they want help but that's what, you know, sits with you. And so then you start doubting, like, you know, are we winning on this? And I always say, like, you know, sometimes you have to forget the day, right? Because the days tend to be taken over by like, whatever that bad, you know, or that negative was. You have to go back and look at the week, and maybe the week wasn't the best week you had. And so you go back and you look at the month, right? And then you go back and you look at the quarter, you look at the year. But I think to your point, Kevin, it's like the photos, if you really had those in your law firm, like, showing like the wins that you had in any business, like, that's the part emotional, like, I think, and I'll use this as an example because of your world, but it's like somebody who says, you know, hey, I know my law firm is around me. I'm the rainmaker, everything else. But I would really like to start to build a brand. Like, I haven't done that. I'm at a couple million in revenue, but I need to start to do that. You know, Kevin, if I can work with you and your team and you're like, yeah, we need to set foundations, though, it's going to take a while. Right? Like, we're starting from scratch, but they do it and they invest in it consistently, like, you know, for the first month, months, whatever else. Like, that's not going to have a bunch of wins for them, possibly. Right. But it's overall, like, as they get back and if they look back at, you know, any time period, and they're like, wow, how things have changed. But usually it's when you get there, like, you don't really realize those change because it's taken so long, you know, it's taken time to get there. [00:29:58] Speaker B: You're in it day to day, like you said, so you don't see it. [00:30:01] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. I always go back to, like, I mean, I could talk about my first law firm deal, right, that I helped close and how I worked for that, you know, for really years of kind of building the business, you know, working on coaching and education and consulting, and then bring together this first deal. And that was, you know, so exciting. And you're like, yes. And then, you know, now, again, it's a different landscape. I mean, we've got thousands of buyers and sellers and, you know, we're transacting and everything else. And so it doesn't feel like these big wins all the time, but you have to Remember, like, it started back then, right? And you just got to keep building and doing all of that. So, yeah, I'm going to get a, I'm going to get a photo wall. That's what I'm going to do to figure out how to do that and then just like track our wins and just constantly put those up. I think that's a great idea. [00:30:48] Speaker B: I can send you the. It's like a calendar. It's like 24 inches is huge. I wanted a big one, but I installed it myself and had to add like electrical and stuff like that. But it's just right in our kitchen and it's got our calendar and it shows what's going on, but it's, it just constantly reminds you, you know, of things we've done, which is kind of cool. And I just, I kind of just thought about that with business wins. But we have a company meeting, you know, every single month, and then every quarter we do like, it's called all hands. It's actually, it's all always all hands. But that's what we just ended up calling it in the beginning. But we have to recap the wins because sometimes the month we're in might not be feeling like the best month for the, for our team. So we got to recap, like, hey, here's all the cool and good stuff that we did. And we know, like my business partner said, we know we have to do that so that, you know, they feel good about where things are and we have to do it for ourselves too. You know what I mean? Like, we, you know, might have been the worst week ever and we had the company meeting, but so we have to recap. So we'll make all the slides and recap. Here's all the cool stuff. And we have visuals and we celebrate people's wins with two, you know, with core value awards that we do and all this other stuff. So you kind of have to have that pep rally, if you will, every once in a while. [00:32:09] Speaker A: Look, I mean, you know this, being an entrepreneur, even if you have a couple partners or anything else, can be very lonely, right? I mean, the self doubt, everything else. And, and I think probably for lawyers who have been thrust sometimes into that position because they're just, they were good lawyers and their business grew around them and now they're like, ah, I don't know how to do marketing or I don't know how, like this accounting and finance has gotten beyond me. Right? And so, but looking and looking back and saying, hey, you're doing the right things. You have one can be that emotional, recharge, give you another. Another three months, right? Like, hey, we can do this another three months. We've got our wins, we're doing the right things, we're taking care of people, doing, you know, the good work. And, and sometimes that's just what it's about, right? Keeping that positive attitude. [00:32:56] Speaker B: Yeah. 100. So, yeah, do, you know, do what you can and take my suggestions or whatever, it doesn't matter. But you got, you know, you gotta celebrate the little wins, but then you gotta, you gotta keep on moving on. I forgot that there's like a quote. It's like, celebrate the win for a few minutes and then on to the next. But, but it's good to have those recaps, you know. And like, for our marketing clients, we have to do year over year, like, because they go, what have you done for me lately? But we also have to kind of recap, like, hey, let's look at where you were a year ago versus here. Like, oh, wow, okay. You know, much more brand reach. You know, we're signing way more cases. We got more, more visibility, whatever it is. But, but yeah, to your point, someone wants to sign up and start working on the brand. Like, it's definitely not overnight wins that are going to be happening. [00:33:52] Speaker A: One of the things, you know, and Kevin, you and I may have talked about this, we do law firm valuations for certain clients on an annual basis. Right. Because they're just, you know, they're trying to benchmark and, and hopefully feel the wins. Right. And that they're building value in doing that. You know, we launched. We have like a law firm estimator on our website you can go to. So if you want like the, the napkin, you know, the, the napkin. [00:34:16] Speaker B: What's the website? So we absolutely. [00:34:18] Speaker A: The lawpractice exchange.com. so the law practiceexchange.com and if you go there, you know, pop up and you'll see the estimator. But just going through there and just giving yourself hopefully that like, reaffirmation, like, I'm doing the right things, right? Like, wow, look at where I came. If you saved last year's and you go forward, you know, our team, when they go through a full valuation analysis course, more in depth, it kind of goes through more sw, you know, analysis and everything else. But it's just sometimes you just need that, right? You just need that reflection and review to know that, you know, I'm building something good, I'm on the path to do. So. Yeah, this day, this Week this month. This quarter has not been great, but, hey, we're doing the right things. And. And that's part of, you know, again, just getting back to, you know, the goal of, like, why the exit blueprint? Why do I believe in it is part of it is really because lawyers have never had more options to truly monetize the value of what they built. And the last two years have just exploded the market in, you know, really expanding those. Not just from private equity. We can talk about that or not. [00:35:28] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:35:28] Speaker A: But the overall is just more law firms, lawyers, buyers coming to look and say, I want to be your successor. I would love to find a firm that does this. And if you can build the right business, then you're just going to have tremendous options. And that was not, I can tell you, for somebody who's been in this a decade and a half, that was not available, you know, even five to 10 years ago. So the exciting part is, like, you're not just doing this based on a thesis anymore. You're really doing this based on, like, that successor should be there if you do the right things. But you got to prepare, you got to give yourself time. You got to invest in it to do the right steps and carry that forward. So it's, you know, lawyers sometimes, I said, like, they never want to be first, they just want to be second. Because the. There's always doubt. We talked about, you know, that scene, risk anything else. But if somebody else go through it, and what I'm trying to do here is just say, look like they've gone through it. Right. Like lawyers, you know, we've had hundreds of transactions, right. Help thousands of lawyers, and they've gone through it. And if you do the right things, you can go through it, too. And I think that's pretty powerful for lawyers who hopefully, you know, or you know, regretfully have never thought about that because the options were more in theory than in practice. [00:36:46] Speaker B: Yeah. No, I love that. Yeah, people have done it and. And you can do it, too. And I think that's very helpful. So the exit blueprint. Sal. What? June 10th. [00:37:00] Speaker A: June 10th. We. [00:37:01] Speaker B: This episode might be. You might be listening to this after that. So if so, go get it. Go get a copy. It'll help you regardless if you're trying to sell the next five or ten years or not, but just understanding what it takes so to grow a great practice, which you should be doing either way back to our point, you know, because you live in it all day, every day, might as well be going the way you want it to go. So. [00:37:29] Speaker A: Absolutely. So I expect a big surge of book sales June or when this podcast drops, if it's after June 10th. [00:37:36] Speaker B: Absolutely. [00:37:37] Speaker A: I'm gonna tell our marketing team, keep an eye on things when this podcast drops. We're expecting that. So all of you listeners out there, if you're listening. Right. We're expecting it. [00:37:46] Speaker B: So this is a direct order. [00:37:48] Speaker A: Yeah. Show Kevin the love. Show Kevin the love. Right. And it just so happens to play for us. But, yeah, absolutely. Super exciting. And, you know, Kevin, excited, of course, reconnect with you and. And talk about it. But, you know, we're just excited about the marketplace and as it kind of builds and provides this. So the more word we can spread and hopefully have, you know, believers build a good business that's a law firm and, you know, exit it when you're ready. [00:38:12] Speaker B: I love it. It's. I guess what this podcast is all about, honestly, is just. Yeah. Growing a better law firm, a business that doesn't run your life, and you can create the life you want. And exiting is part of that. Then Tom's the guy to talk to. So great topic, great conversation. I always love having these conversations and connecting back with you, Tom. So I'll definitely see you around, I'm sure, this year. Conferences, other events, podcasts, mastermind groups. So looking forward to that. So everyone, yeah, connect with Tom. Go check out his new book, the Exit Blueprint, and check out the his exchange. So, Tom, anything else before we go? [00:38:56] Speaker A: I don't think so. Greatly appreciate it, Kevin, and happy to come back and reconnect. We can talk, you know, anything from boats to Puerto Rico, tax benefits or anything else that we talked about, you know, pre recorded. So happy to do it. [00:39:08] Speaker B: Yep. The pre show is just on fire. We should have recorded that, but we'll come back and do another one. But. Well, Tom, you say I'm with me. Everyone else, hey, thank you so much for tuning into this show. Hope you picked up some helpful tips. Hopefully you picked up the book and you find it helpful. And we'll see you on the next episode. Sam.