Building a Law Firm with Leadership and Delegation

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Initial motivation to use LinkedIn was listening to one of his guest speaker in the Coaching conference. He was successfully getting one case referred a month. Each case to him was worth about $10,000. That sold me. Just by being on LinkedIn, I can get one case and maybe if it's worth 5k to me, then that's like one extra case a month just by being on Linked. Foreign. [00:00:36] Speaker B: Most firms survive. The best ones scale. Welcome to the Managing Partners podcast, where law firm leaders learn to think bigger. I'm Kevin. Daisy. Let's jump in. What's up, my podcast family? Welcome to another episode of the Managing Partners podcast. I'm here with a LinkedIn influencer, if you will, but also just a great business law firm owner. Got Jimmy Lai on the show and if you don't know him, just go on LinkedIn. He's built quite the following. But we're just going to chop it up today. We're going to cover some stuff about LinkedIn, we're going to cover some stuff about managing a law firm and kind of the different paths we can go, what Jimmy's up to and where he's going and what's worked best for him. So, Jimmy, welcome to the show. [00:01:27] Speaker A: Yeah, thank you. Thanks, Kevin. Thanks for having me on. It's still weird to listen those words come out of people's mouth. LinkedIn influencer. I don't think I really set out to be a LinkedIn influencer, but I'll take it as an introvert. Showing up on LinkedIn over the last 19 months, it's been a journey. [00:01:46] Speaker B: Yeah, that's a short amount of time, I think, to build up the following you have on there. And again, you didn't set out to do it, but you know, obviously people related to the content and found it helpful or engaging. So, you know, sometimes people just, just hit the right nerve and, you know, it works out. [00:02:05] Speaker A: Yeah, that's the, that's the secret to it. It's just, you know, hit the right nerve and resonate with people and you know, people will naturally want to keep following and engaging with your content. [00:02:15] Speaker B: Yeah, I love it. And so, you know, first I want a little hear about your background and some story. But we'll talk about LinkedIn a little bit too and how that's helped you in a way that most people might think it's all lead gen, but you know, we'll kind of talk about that in a few minutes. But yeah, tell me, tell me how you got to where you are. Founding your own firm, you have a partner. So It's Ly and Turner. Correct. You're in Oklahoma City. [00:02:37] Speaker A: Yep. [00:02:38] Speaker B: So, yeah, tell me a little bit about how that went down. [00:02:40] Speaker A: Yeah, sure. So my name is Jimmy Lai. I'm actually originally from Taiwan. And fun fact, I'm still here as a non immigrant. So I'm here under what's called the E2 visa. And to get to that point, I graduated with a jd, mba. Essentially jobless. Being from Taiwan, being an international student. Every time I fill out the question or answer the question, will you now or in the future require a work visa? Essentially, whenever I say yes, five minutes later, I will get an automatic rejection in an email saying I'm not qualified, even though I applied for jobs that I'm clearly overqualified for. So that's the only question that really has hindered me. So I graduated jobless, nowhere to go. I only have months to figure out what to do. And if no one was hiring me, I couldn't stay in the U.S. luckily, I found out about this E2 visa. And then I texted Braden Turner, our firm partner. He was my law school classmate. And I just texted him and said, hey, do you want to start a law firm together? So, you know, this might be a way for me to continue my career in the US and he just says, sure. So we just did it through text. That's how much, I guess we trusted each other. And that's the key. Like the trust that we have for each other has allowed us to grow he trust in me in making those business decisions, the strategies to put in place to grow the business. And I trust in him on the fulfillment side to deliver exceptional legal service to the clients. [00:04:14] Speaker B: That's awesome. Text your friend. Hey, you wanna jump off a cliff? Sure, let's go. [00:04:19] Speaker A: Yeah. So I don't know, maybe, you know, I was delusional in thinking that, you know, we'll be successful as a business. And then maybe he was. It wasn't normal as well, you know, saying okay to let's start a business together. [00:04:34] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, that's awesome. I mean, obviously good timing. You know, he believes in you, you know, trust you. But it must have been right, the right time for him too, just to be like, you know what? Yeah, let's. Let's do this. So I think the best time to start a business is always just right now. Because some people over complicate things. They wait, they try to plan, and they might not ever make that. That leap to start. [00:04:54] Speaker A: Right. Right. My dream was actually just to be an employee. Actually just clock in, clock out, don't have to worry about sleepless nights, worrying about payroll, marketing, new clients, and can enjoy my weekends, weeknights. That was the life I was looking forward to. Just clocking, clock out and everything else is not my problem. And actually my mom's wish, her dream for me was just become a professor so that I would maybe have summer and winters off and can go visit her. So that was, like, what the goals were. But then I was thrust into this entrepreneurship life and her, herself, she was an entrepreneur, so she knew what it takes to kind of run a business and what sacrifices need to be made. She didn't want that life for me, actually, so. But now she's come around and she's fully supportive. At first she was like, are you sure? I don't really want you to start a business? Because I started the business myself. And the last 30 years of running the business is just almost always 24 7. [00:05:51] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. It's definitely not for everyone. And. But once you do and once you. You've tasted it and once you, you know, you get things going and you see what you can build and. And people that want to follow and be part of it, it's not really. It's not usually you're not going to go back. [00:06:12] Speaker A: Right. [00:06:13] Speaker B: To anything else. So. But, yeah, no, I'm grateful. Yeah. It is challenging and it can have a lot of, you know, impact on you, for sure. That's why we got to figure, you know, this podcast was kind of all about, like, how do we run our business properly, how do we do it in a way that doesn't consume us and that can be designed in a way to allow us to have time and time off and family and vacations and be profitable and be great for everyone that works there. So that's what the podcast is all about. And so what you guys are doing is. Is great. Sounds like you've already built a great company and kind of to that too. You know, you've decided, you know, you want to run a company, you want to build a company, and you're not the best lawyer is what you told me. You have people for that. You're delegating, you're. You're building teams. So tell me a little bit more about that and kind of how that's come to light. [00:07:09] Speaker A: Sure. So it might not be, you know, smart for me to acknowledge this publicly, but even though, you know, I'm an immigration attorney and that's my expertise in that area, I open the, admit to my team, I may still be the best Immigration in the law firm. But I delegate so much of my time on the business side of law, understanding the law firm business, treating it as a business instead of a practice, understanding the marketing aspect, understanding the operations, the finances. So I really dedicated the last three years, a lot of my time on that area of law. So what could they call it? Business side of law? And so I openly admit to my team members, hey, you all probably have better lawyer skills than I do, but I'm good at. I think I'm getting better at the business side of law and in. My job as a CEO is fully embracing the CEO role. And I see my job as two main functions. One is to allocate resources behind certain strategies or the team members to make sure that they're successful and empowering them to do a great job for clients. And then my second function is making sure clients keep calling us, making sure the phones never stop ringing, making sure we have sufficient inquiries coming in to keep the pipeline going. So right now, I see myself as these two main functions, but eventually I'll also need to be delegating those functions out because we don't have a chief marketing officer yet. I am the marketing right now, which I enjoy because my undergrad was actually in market. So I really like doing various things, but sometimes I think I can catch myself. They call it shiny object syndrome. And so that's how I got into doing too much on LinkedIn and everything. But one of the things that really allowed me to grow was the willingness to delegate. I recognize I'm not the best lawyer in Oklahoma. I'm not the best. I don't even know how to do family law, criminal defense, some. But I fully delegated out to leaders of those practice area groups. So we do like family law, criminal defense, estate planning, personal injury, and immigration. And immigration is the only practice area that I do. But all the other four, I fully entrusted those leaders to really handle those practice area groups. [00:09:24] Speaker B: I love it. You know, you wear so many hats when you start out, but you know, delegating is the most powerful thing when you realize too, you're not the smartest person in the room or the best in the room for these other functions, especially when it's stuff that you never even were taught or learned how to do. But sometimes as entrepreneurs, we want to. We want to put our hands on everything. We want to do it all. I think it's good to have understanding. Like, you don't want to have zero understanding about marketing, zero understanding about the finances. But you're the owner, right? But you're not going to be the best at probably any of those things. And over time, yeah, you have to delegate out. So kudos because, you know, I own marketing agencies and I'm by not even close to the best marketer on our team. So I'm getting worse every day because, you know, I don't, I just don't do the work, I don't do the marketing. I, I literally have to go to my team to understand and get updates on where things are and markets and trends and stuff like that. So it's more of me getting, you know, a brief. But I, and I can relay that because I can talk to people, but I am not the best marketer by even any stretch of anything. So. [00:10:42] Speaker A: Yeah. So like that's the, yeah, thank you. That's, that's the mindset I've had is like, that's what they say, you know, if you're the smartest one in the room, then you're in the wrong room. So I really, I'm really trying to embrace that mentality that let go of my ego. I don't need to be a know it all. And there's accept that there's someone better than you out there who happens to be working for you. So that's my whole goal now is hiring people smarter than me, more skilled than me to come join the team. And yes, organizationally, I may be on the higher up on the hierarchy, but I really want to treat them as team members that collectively we have one vision, which is to serve our clients well. That's it. And do a good job. So that's kind of what the mentality that I'm trying to embrace. [00:11:28] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, you create a place, you know, that. Well, if you're delegating, you're creating positions, creating opportunities, you're creating growth. And when people see that they can grow at your firm in different ways, you know, whether it's new positions, departments, or just maybe leading people, they want to be there. They have what I call mental ownership. They don't have equity or true ownership maybe. But they, they like the culture, they like the vision, and so they protect, you know, what you've built. And then when they hire, they don't want to hire bad people because then they're going to be working with those people. So. Right. You kind of create this, you know, system. I think the next, the next hardest thing is as you grow is to have just taken your position, say like an office manager, something like that, to where they can hire someone better than them. Or in a position that maybe they're. They're doing it temporarily, but they. They're just not the best at is sometimes you got to bring in people over top people. And really, sometimes that can be challenging, I think, for. For team to be like, yeah, you're not an HR manager, so you can't just keep that role. We have to at some point hire someone that's got that experience. So I think that's just kind of the next evolution for people to. [00:12:43] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:12:44] Speaker B: To have to battle with. [00:12:45] Speaker A: So, yeah, and that was the evolution that I had to go through myself the first year of the business, as I was wearing many hats, trying to do it all myself. And, you know, that's just really the openness to figure out, like, how to get someone involved and having ownership of that. At the end of the day, I think no one would ever care as much for your business other than yourself. But I've gone taking the mentality that if they can just carry at least 80% of how I care, then that's good enough, and then the other 20% can be developed over time. So that's been. My mentality is like, 80% is good enough. We can always train, we can always dedicate some resources to ensure it's 100%, but 80% is a good goal to strive for whenever I'm delegating. And so most recently, we finally had hired a fractional cfo. I was in charge of the finances, but it's beyond me at this point. Too complicated. So now we finally, a couple months ago, finally hired a professional cfo. And it's been great knowing the budget we have to work with and how we need to do things to make sure that the firm is profitable. [00:14:00] Speaker B: Yeah, that's excellent. I mean, you know, having a fractional in there when, you know, CFO doesn't make sense full time. Having someone that can come in with the expertise and get things on point is awesome. Having access to your numbers, your finances, your leads, case values. It's just so important to run a business to make decisions, to make decisions far out too. Like if you're just going by wishing your bank account today, you're really handicapped on trying to make bigger decisions in the future or paying for things that you could use now that you're not sure if you can afford because your numbers just aren't clear to you. So that's awesome having that in place. [00:14:42] Speaker A: Yeah, it is. [00:14:43] Speaker B: We haven't touched on LinkedIn. And by the way, first off, your two roles that you've kind of Chosen to focus on, I think are great. So you got, we need leads coming in and then make sure everyone has what they need to keep the clients happy. So that's new business and retention of. Of business clients and referrals. I think that's the best place for you to be putting your time. For sure. When we talk about people, culture, things like that, finding great people, a lot of law firms struggle with. Yeah, we can't find people or we're too busy because we can't hire an associate or whatever positions it might be. It sounded like LinkedIn has really helped you there. So you've, you've built this file in things like that and you post a lot. It's not necessarily. It sound like it wasn't a lead generator for new business, but it has helped you on the employee and hiring side. So, you know, share a little bit and I can share same with me. But yeah, share how that's kind of gone down and how that's maybe helped you. [00:15:45] Speaker A: Yeah, I would love to trade trade notes, you know, after I share mine. Love to hear about how you've used LinkedIn. For me, the initial motivation to use LinkedIn was listening to one of these, a guest speaker in the coaching conference where he spoke about using LinkedIn as a referral strategy. And he was successfully as a criminal defense attorney getting one case referred a month. And each case to him was worth about $10,000. So that, that sold me. Oh, just by being on LinkedIn I can get one case and maybe if it's worth 5k to me, then that's like one extra case a month just by being on LinkedIn. Don't have to spend too much on ads at that point. When I heard about it, I was already spending around 10, 15 grand a month, I would say, on, you know, Google Ads, meta ads, but I really wanted to figure out the organic side. So that was the initial motivation to be on LinkedIn, was that maybe I can get some referrals my way. However, you know, over the last 19 months, I've only gotten eight clients directly from LinkedIn. Unfortunately, like LinkedIn wasn't the main lead generation for me, but I would say like the big wins were like connecting with people. If I was on LinkedIn, I would not be on the podcast today. Your associate wouldn't have found me and wouldn't have reached out to me. So I wouldn't be on these podcasts making these connections with attorneys all over the US and all over the world. And not just attorneys, like just really good professionals. And One of them that I connected with is now overseeing our benefits package for our. For. So, like all these various connections we've made, it's. It's been wonderful. And then the, the third thing that I didn't really think about when I first started the journey was recruiting. Originally I would think of LinkedIn as, you know, maybe post a job ad or go on indeed to recruit, and which we have recruited from there. But mainly the surprising win for me being on LinkedIn was recruiting now, I think seven people, 17 members that we had directly from LinkedIn. And I joke with my team members, like, the way to get to me is just send me a LinkedIn DM and you might get hired. So hopefully people seeing this don't start DMing me because I do get a lot of DMS every day, but there are some unique ones that actually just somehow caught my attention. And, you know, most of these, you know, all these seven hires have been excellent. And I think it's because they've been following my content and they understand what I stand for, they understand the vision that I have for the company and they're excited to want to play a role in that. So we've been able to hire seven great people from that. And most recent hire was a intake specialist that had been following my content for the last 12 months. And one day I saw him comment that he's looking for a new intake job. And I just reached out and said, hey, you know, let's figure out work together. And so the first week on the job, he signed up one criminal case without having attorney consultation, and that case was $3,500. So, you know, that's like a win where we didn't have to put out a job ad to look for an intake specialist. Mainly just post on LinkedIn and attracting the right people. [00:19:11] Speaker B: Yeah, that's amazing. So, I mean, I tell all attorneys to be on LinkedIn because, yeah, you can connect with other attorneys. You can just post what you're thinking and what you're feeling, and other people are going to relate to it. Other attorneys that can refer you, but everyone, all the positions on your team, those folks are on there somewhere you can connect with them. Uh, for us, I think. Well, I think what you have 45,000 plus followers or something like that. Last I looked, um, I got like 23,000, so I got to catch up with you. [00:19:43] Speaker A: That's impressive. [00:19:45] Speaker B: But, but man, we, there's nothing better than having a couple positions. And every, every Friday we look at what positions we have and what are we Doing. And we used to have to go to Indeed. And job boards and all this stuff. We haven't done that in quite a long time. And we'll just have the job position. We'll look internally first because our employees usually are like, they're already a players. They are only going to tell it a player that there's a position if they have a friend that they think would be a good fit. So sometimes we don't go outside. We just, we look internally. Can we. Can we hire or promote someone up? If not, who do they. Who does our team know? So we put it out to the team and then we do LinkedIn post and then we just tell the team and they share it. And you know, usually within a week we got more than enough applicants and we're not paying for Indeed. Or job boards and like that. So that's pretty powerful to have. And then we, you know, there's people that follow us. Follow you. That are waiting for those opportunities. [00:20:52] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:20:53] Speaker B: And when they see it, they're like, oh, you know, so we have a, A bench. It's a virtual bench of people that want to work with us. Work with you, work with other firms that are listening here. If you've built a presence that people know who you are and that they understand your business and your culture, people want to work at good places. So if you're complaining that you can't find anybody, well, may. No one might not want to work there or they just don't even know anything about you. So you just don't have that awareness. So I think it's a great idea. [00:21:26] Speaker A: Yeah. So thank you for sharing how you use LinkedIn and how LinkedIn has been. Been great for you. That's really, really awesome to hear. Yeah. Most recently we just got another interview and the job candidate basically said that LinkedIn was the reason why he's considering us. He's been following my content and if everything goes well, he'll be our next attorney hire in the next. [00:21:49] Speaker B: That's awesome. Yeah. And you know, obviously I'm in marketing, so I expect if we're going to hire someone, our RA players are best. They post on LinkedIn, they share stuff because they're trying to advance their career versus some people just use it as a. I only update it once I move jobs, kind of, you know, just like a resume. But when they see you're active, the leader of the law firm, the owner, you push good content. Things that are relevant to what they're doing, they're on there. They're looking to get better at their craft. And they probably connect with people that are in their same positions. You know, it's just a great place to connect and to follow up with people. And a lot of times too, even for like, hey, this person over this other company. They almost were going to work with us a couple years ago, but timing wasn't right. And just go to LinkedIn and DM them and we've gotten a lot of success that way. Hey, you should reach out to this person. Go on LinkedIn, connect DM. Hey, one of our existing employees mentioned you we're hiring. Figured we'd send it to you to take a look. And it's just a great way to get in front of people. [00:23:00] Speaker A: Yeah. One thing I need to try to inspire my team is to get on LinkedIn more. I tried to run an experiment a couple months ago where I said, all right, right, there's a no social media use during the workday policy, but I'll give you all 30 minutes each, each day. However you want to allocate it, go ahead and scroll LinkedIn. So I'm like giving you 30 minutes each day to scroll LinkedIn. You don't even have to comment, just, you know, scroll and, and be on LinkedIn. But somehow it fizzled out in the beginning. There were a couple staff members that did that, but it wasn't sustainable somehow. So I need to figure that out still. How do, how do I inspire the team members to, to grow their personal brand? Now that's, that's a risk for me is that, you know, maybe if they grew their personal brand that they might just go and leave and do something else. But I think that's the risk that I have to be willing to take is that I'm going to be putting resources behind them to help them grow their, their personal brand and they could be a great, like, ambassador to our firm and 100% leave. Then, you know, that's the risk I take. Some of them will leave, but some of them will be great ambassadors and help me and help the company attract potential clients or potential colleagues to work with. [00:24:14] Speaker B: I think that is a great risk to take. And I think it's even riskier to try to hide your people or I've had people in the past that worked for me that were like, I don't want to show any of our team on the website or none of our team, because people are going to come take them if we make a amazing place for them to work and give them those opportunities to, to have their own brand and to Be, be themselves. We're, you know, less likely to lose them. They're going to want to stay here. You're going to lose some people, like if they have the entrepreneur itch and they, they, they have already planned, they knew they want to start their own thing, they're going to go do it at some point. And I've lost some great people to that own their own companies that, you know, I still talk to. And they're, they're doing very well, but we got plenty of a players that are here and they've been here for many years and so create the right place where they want to be given the opportunities. You might lose a couple, but I think you'll keep way more if you do that. Some of the big attorney influencers that I know, they don't own the firm and they bring in more cases than anyone else in the firm, but they're not leaving the firm. They're making a lot of money, they're getting a lot of recognition, but they still don't want to be entrepreneurs. They're fine doing their thing. So there's some amazing attorneys out there that they don't own the firm. And they got hundreds of thousands of followers on some of these platforms. So, you know, let give them the platform for it. I'd say go. Go all in on that. [00:25:44] Speaker A: Yeah. And just that alone, like this conversation has been worth it for me. That's this, this mindset shift to be more willing to take that risk. I've been like, okay, I'm gonna take the risk. Okay, maybe not. Maybe I will. So now after this conversation, you've really inspired me to just, hey, just go for it. You know, some might leave. And even without trying to do this initiative, we already had a couple attorneys leave and start their own firm already, so why not go for it, do it. And yeah, some might leave, but I might end up keeping more and attracting more. [00:26:17] Speaker B: Yeah, I think, you know, you do them a service, they might improve or get better and go off and do the thing that they, they had planned to do. But, you know, I feel like that's great when an employee leaves. You know, here we have over 60 people. We're going to lose people. We're going to keep people. Sometimes they move around, sometimes they have, you know, things you can't control. Family, you know, whatever it could be. So you're just never going to keep everybody, especially as you grow. It's just not possible. But it's great when they're like, hey, I'm going to go do this Other opportunity that they now have. And you say that that's excellent. Like you've given them that opportunity in this part of the life that got them to that next spot and that's going to be okay. Sometimes versus they leave because they're not happy, and then, you know, it's a falling out and they just leave you high and dry. What would you rather have? [00:27:12] Speaker A: Yeah, I guess so. Yeah. Like, I guess the difficult part for me is that mindset. Like they're employees, but I kind of treat them as friends. Like anyone that joins us, I treat them as, as good friends and I'm human. So it does hurt like, man, sad that you're, you know, you know, a good friend is leaving us. But I need to have that mentality. Okay, we're good friends and if you want to, sometimes it's life circumstances beyond their control, but just wish them well and yeah, that's, that's a mentality. [00:27:40] Speaker B: They could also come back. Yeah, you know, we, we've had people be like, man, the difference, like, you know, because they leave and go to another company, another firm or another opportunity, but the grass isn't always greener. Sometimes they might want to come back. They could come back with other people. They could come back with new experiences. So I think it's just, you know, you have to kind of roll with the punches and. But if you give them the opportunity to create the best environment, you're friends with them, you give them everything they need, they'll always say good things. And if, you know, you give them all the opportunities you can, I think you'll keep way more people, your retention will be way higher, in my opinion. And some can become influencers, drive a lot of cases. [00:28:19] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:28:19] Speaker B: And stay, you know, and, and just be happy. Because not everyone wants to be an entrepreneur. I mean, at the end of the day, it's, it's not for everybody. So, you know, you're gonna have folks that are just happy where they're at, and if they can make more money, build a personal brand, help you out, help you grow, then they're going to be rewarded for that. [00:28:39] Speaker A: Somehow this, this became like a coaching session for me. It's inspired me to go ahead and do that. [00:28:46] Speaker B: Well, I've started my own business when I was pretty young, and so I've been doing it a long time, but I just learned from everyone around me, honestly, my business partner and other folks. I got my coo, Eric Thomas. Like, just watching other people make decisions, but also, you know, mistakes fail. You know, things that we've learned from that. You just kind of. It's easy to say, oh, just do this because you can't protect everybody. Keep them all. They're going to leave probably anyway. So sometimes you just have to lean into it and say, screw it, we're gonna give you everything. I know, like my sales team anyway. Like, I have a whole social team. If they want to opt in, we'll create all their content. Video, social media, everything. But they don't have to do it. And I got salespeople that don't want to have a brand or talk about anything work, and you got some that go all in and they're making their own videos and reels and social stuff. So it's up to them. [00:29:38] Speaker A: Yeah, that's a good mindset. And I'm gonna, after this talk, I'm gonna start planning on how to, how to roll that out and inspire the team on. And the next. Well, next thing would be sharing the, the book. I didn't really think about, like writing a book at all. Like sharing about my journey of being an introvert, how to kind of be visible on LinkedIn. So next thing would be like just sharing them the book and pretty much the step by step guidebook on how to build your personal brand on LinkedIn. [00:30:08] Speaker B: I love that. That's awesome. Um, yeah, and being like, you know, you said introvert. Like, how do you still get yourself out there and become comfortable with it and, and put the content out and be vulnerable? Because LinkedIn, you know, that's kind of a platform where you can be yourself, be real, and that does better than some flashy stuff or trying to, you know, like Instagram or something like that. So it's definitely a different type of content. But I think a lot of people struggle that a lot of, a lot of lawyers, I'm met or introvert. And I think we, the general public thinks lawyers are up in a courtroom, you know, controlling the whole situation and can jump on a stage at any, any point in time and it just took over. But not the case. [00:30:50] Speaker A: Yeah, no, that's a rare, rare breed of attorneys. And television made it seem like it's the norm. But really, I think about a lot. A lot of attorneys are introverts and, and that's me especially. You hit a nail on the head earlier of being vulnerable on there. That's the reason why I shared my vulnerable stories of failing the bar three times and my LSAT score to show that there's the human side and there's vulnerability. So that when I post about the winds I don't come off as bragging too much. So it balances out. So like the winds get the views, the vulnerables also get the views and it attracts different kind of audience and they resonate with both types of content. [00:31:33] Speaker B: Your audience knows the fails, they know the, the real you. So when you do share a win, they're like, yeah, you know, and they're, they're supportive versus, you know, you can share a win and, and have done, but haters on some platforms. So, yeah, I think that's, you know, you figured out kind of the secret sauce right there and what works on that platform. So, yes, anyone listening think you don't have nothing to talk about because you failed or you, you suck at this or that. You got a ton of talk about, you know. [00:32:00] Speaker A: Yeah, that's what I thought too. Like, you know, I'm an introvert. So much so that I tell people when I was growing up, if I, let's say, Kevin, I know you and I'm at a grocery store and I need something from aisle two and I see you in L2, I'll deliberately wait till you leave L2 to go get the stuff I need. Just so I don't have to. Just so I don't have to say hi, oh, the weather is nice today. Or like do small talk. That's how much of an introvert I was. I didn't want to do that. So, like going from that to maybe over sharing too much and LinkedIn in a way has been kind of like my public diary bearing the wins, the losses, what my thought process are, what's a new thing that I've learned today that I want to share and talk about? And so I kind of treated as that. And somehow people, people enjoy that content. [00:32:51] Speaker B: I love it. And everyone, please go connect with Jimmy. Jimmy Lai, it's L. A. I find him on LinkedIn and connect with him, look at his content. Especially if you're trying to get on LinkedIn or do better on LinkedIn, you know, wondering what's going to work best for you. Not I bet. So if you're introvert or if you think you have no good stories because you're not super successful or have a huge firm and maybe you're starting out plenty to talk about, just using real stories, things that you've actually done. I appreciate you sharing today, Jimmy. [00:33:20] Speaker A: Yeah, thanks for having me. I hope anyone listening to this, enjoy this episode and yeah, reach out to me on LinkedIn. Happy to talk about how to grow your LinkedIn and exchange ideas and information about Running a business. [00:33:36] Speaker B: Excellent. No, I mean, I could talk to you all day. We could probably cover a lot of different things. Maybe we have to have you back on for different area of the business that we can talk about. And so we'll have to line something up for that. Jimmy Law. So you have lie turner law.com if you want to check out his firm. They've really put a lot of good things in place. Of course, if you want any direct connection, I can do us a DM through LinkedIn or just email me and I'll get. Get you connected. Thanks for listening, everyone. I appreciate it. Be yourselves, get vulnerable. You know, give your people resources, delegate. And then you don't have to be the best lawyer in your firm either. I think that's another huge lesson. It's okay to bring in other people, to not be the smartest person in the room, to not be the best lawyer there. You know, we also talked about how important it is to focus on the business of the law firm and having your hands on financials, marketing, things like that. So get better at those things or bring in people to do it and that already have the experience. [00:34:34] Speaker A: Yeah, get better and then get the Inc. 5000 award that you see behind Kevin there. [00:34:40] Speaker B: You actually just got Best Place to [00:34:42] Speaker A: Work by inc. Oh, wow. Congratulations. [00:34:45] Speaker B: We don't have that award yet, but we. I think it's announced. We just haven't. We don't have. I don't have the hardware yet, so that's coming. [00:34:50] Speaker A: That's amazing. [00:34:52] Speaker B: Yeah, you know, don't do everything I do. I share a lot. But folks like Jimmy, listen to them and connect. And we'll see you guys in the next episode. Jimmy, thanks so much for joining me today. And we'll see you all soon. [00:35:09] Speaker A: Sam,