Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: The success of a firm is driven by culture. You can have the greatest people, but if you don't have a good culture, they're not going to stay. If you have bad people and you have a good culture, you may be able to pull them up and turn them into good team. But it all starts with culture. For sure,
[00:00:30] Speaker B: Most firms survive the best ones scale.
Welcome to the Managing Partners podcast, where law firm leaders learn to think bigger. I'm Kevin. Daisy. Let's jump in.
Well, what's going on there, everyone?
Welcome to another episode.
Thanks so much for tuning in, for being here, for listening. We have, I think we have over 500 law firm owners, legal experts, marketers, my competitors, vendors, you can name it. So we're always looking for great content and to share with you all out there. If you pick something up, learn something. And today I have Patrick Wooten on the show out of Mississippi.
[00:01:12] Speaker A: Yes. And great state of Mississippi to have you here.
I'm glad to be here. I appreciate you having me.
[00:01:18] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, we, we, as always, if you've been a guest on this show, get to spend five or ten minutes just talking backstage and we've had some great conversations and at some point I'm like, okay, we should probably record an episode. But it's, it's priceless to kind of have, you know, those conversations and just catch up if I know them already. But.
So Patrick's a amazing person already. I can tell.
Has a great practice down in the state of Mississippi where it's beautiful. Not humid weather at all.
[00:01:53] Speaker A: That's right. Come on down. It's chamber of commerce weather. You know, it's perfect. If you like 90 plus degrees and 90 plus humidity. We are the place for you now. We love Virginia's people today. No, it's not. I mean, as you know, we talked before. I did a couple of years of high school, my dad in the army, right close to where you live. So now it got hot in Virginia and got humid. There's no doubt about that.
[00:02:15] Speaker B: That's for sure. Well, Patrick, thanks so much for joining me.
Tell us about your firm a little bit as far as what you specialize in. Obviously you're in Mississippi, but tell us a little bit about what makes you all different, special, and then you just want to kind of jump in from there about your journey from where you started as a lawyer to kind of where you are now. I think there's going to be a lot of lessons in there and we'll take it from there.
[00:02:41] Speaker A: Gotcha. Well, I appreciate you having me. Yeah. I love talking about the firm, love talking about the people within firm. So it's Schwartz and Associates Injury Lawyers was founded 45 years ago by Richard Schwartz, who created a fabulous foundation of the law firm with six offices across the state of Mississippi.
But it's really the people within the six offices. You know, it's the intake team, it's the mail room, it's. It's the people that I love. I mean, our lawyers are great. I won't trade them, but you know, it's our call center people and everyone else that, you know, I love just getting to have those conversations with. Yeah. Biggest personal energy firm. It's nice to be able to say that. Biggest personal energy firm in the state of. State of Mississippi. Mississippi. A lot of people have never been here. It is the friendliest people, most hospitable people.
It's kind of odd because it's only 2.9 million people, but we actually have six separate TV DMAs in a state of 2.9 million people. So we actually advertise in five of the six. The one we don't advertise in is the. Is the Coast. Just because we have an agreement with a law firm that is down there, that's in a couple other states that were in a mastermind group and you can't compete head to head. So we relinquished the coast to them years ago. Cause we just didn't have plans to. Plans to go there. But yeah, the firm went from a founder and one legal secretary to. We'll have 24 attorneys as of early July, you know, 100, about 30 team members.
Try not to use the word staff because they're not. Because it's a team. Because it takes collectively everyone working together for the success of the. Of the firm. And I kind of chuckle when I started here 26 years ago, which was a story we'll get into. I know, Kevin, because it's a rather interesting one. We didn't even fill the building of which I'm currently setting. We rented out space to two other businesses because we just were that small. We were five attorneys and about 25 team members. So we had to rent out space to. To others to fill it. And now we're busting at the seams and have a second office in Jackson and then opened up offices in Hattiesburg and Meridian and Greenville and Tupelo and Columbus, Mississippi over the. Over the year. So the growth has just been phenomenal. And it's always all of the people. So I love it. Mississippi is. Everybody knows everybody. It's the whole seven degrees of separation. I guarantee you, I could go walk into a Chick Fil A or Starbucks or wherever and start talking and probably in the course of about four or five questions, figure out that I'm going to know somebody that that person knows.
[00:05:19] Speaker B: Yeah, I love that. I love communities like that. And you're selling Mississippi for me.
[00:05:25] Speaker A: So it is wonderful people. It really is.
[00:05:30] Speaker B: So, you know, when we were talking earlier, too, you know, lots of folks that listen to this show, a lot of people I've had on this show, they're the founding attorney. They went off on their own. They started a firm.
Your story is a little different. You have been a lawyer for, what, 32 years. You've been at this firm for 26 years. You're now a partner and CEO of the largest personal injury firm in the state of Mississippi.
So that's a little bit different. And I want to kind of maybe open that up as, you know, how did you get, you know, fall into where you're at, the firm there and, you know, kind of what that journey was like to where now you are, you know, at the top of that firm?
[00:06:14] Speaker A: I think it's. It's great. I. I think my story is unique, but I. I think a lot of it has to do with divine providence, but I think more so, it's. It's about treating people the right way. I graduated law school and got an insurance defense job. So I was doing the absolute opposite side of the.
Of the fence. And then In January of 2000, the founder, Richard Schwartz, calls me and says, is this Patrick? I'm like, yes, it is. He goes, this is Richard Schwartz. He goes, I have a job opening, and an insurance adjuster told me I should hire you. I'd never met him. I knew he was. I'd actually defended cases that his firm had filed, Filed, probably being on the insurance defense side.
And I went, I'll come talk to you. I was like, I'm never going to turn down an opportunity to talk to people because I think, you know, like you and I talked about before the show, human connection is so important.
So we talked, and then we talked some more and some more and some more, because I didn't start until July 1st of 2000. So it actually took me, you know, a few months to make the decision that it was the right move for me to switch from one side of the legal fence to the other. And really getting to know him and getting to know the folks that worked at his. At his firm, and so made the switch, you know, best decision I. I ever made other than, you know, marrying my wife.
And so it just ended up being fabulous. And then just through, you know, hard work and great opportunities. You know, the whole time I was here, I was also in the Mississippi Army National Guard, which I had been in since 1991. So I had that background, and Richard was really appreciative of that. But, yeah, just kind of worked my way up. And as the firm grew, we had to take on different roles and succeeded in those and became a partner almost a dozen years ago and then actually first became the COO in 2019. So I actually became the COO of the firm in 2019 and then became the CEO of the firm on March 1st of 2025.
And I think it's just a lot of it. Richard trusted me back in the day of making me COO my other partners.
When the transition took place in 2025, seeing my track record and seeing the successes that we had had and the growth we'd had at the firm under my guidance and because I had my hand on everything, I just had a great understanding of the big picture of the firm and knowing where we'd come from, what are the things that we were doing great, what are the things we needed to, you know, make adjustments on to just tighten it up. And so it's been a wonderful 16 months now that I've been the COO. So things are going, you know, very well. And, you know, love the partners I work with and love the people within this building and the other six buildings across the state.
[00:09:08] Speaker B: Yes. That's awesome. That's amazing for. For folks to hear, I think, where, you know, I feel a little bit more now it's folks either jump around to different firms or they go start their own firm.
But just good to hear the stories of, you know, got into a great place, stayed there, stuck it out.
Obviously it was a good place to work from the beginning.
And that's a lot of conversation on this podcast too, is, you know, building a good culture and a great place, have a great place, a family type environment, which it sounds like if the firm was not like that, then you probably wouldn't have gone there or stayed there very long. So I'm sure that has something to do with. With the success of it.
[00:09:57] Speaker A: So, yeah, I mean, you hit the nail on the head and culture is really the key.
I think that's one of the things that we did struggle with for a while as the firm grew. And it's just hard when 75% of your team is in two buildings that are across the street from, from each other. In Jackson, you have people three hours away, an hour and a half away, an hour and 20 away to, to get them ingrained. And you know, when a vendor's so nice to bring us breakfast or bring us lunch, when vaguely they're going to bring it to the office where most of us are. So we really had to be very intentional when we were getting things to make sure that the satellite offices were. But I think the best decision we made as a firm was, even before I came CEO is that I got Richard to allow us to do a culture survey. We'd never done one in the cert in the history of the firm. An anonymous culture. And it touched everything. I mean, it was 65 questions long.
You're not going to get everyone to respond, but I was proud. We got out 75, 70 ish percent of the staff responded, team members.
And it definitely highlighted some things that needed to be changed at the, at the firm that people were confused at that point as to who ran what, you know, what was the direction of the firm. And so I give Richard credit that he made the change based on that December 18th survey to make me the COO, because he had never had one. He'd never really had a true COO at the firm, which just let me touch everything.
So it kind of gave people a one stop shop. And then it was through that that ultimately led to, you know, positive changes for the firm.
I mean, it was a big change because we needed a new HR director because the old one, you know, left. So we hired a new HR director. So you had a bunch of just seismic changes happening all at the same point. But yeah, the success of a firm is driven by culture. You can have the greatest people, but if you don't have a good culture, they're not going to stay. You know, if you have bad people and you have a good culture, you may be able to pull them up and turn them into good team. But it all starts with culture for sure, 100%.
[00:11:57] Speaker B: Amen. I love that.
Yeah, I think the survey is a really great idea and it's something we do often here. I have, I think we're at 63 or 65 people and, you know, leadership, you know, might be going this way. And we know what we're doing and everyone's got their roles, but how many people are confused or don't understand who's doing what or.
And it happens all the time to us. And we ask every, you know, every once in a while we'll do a survey or we'll do a like all hands meeting where we get everyone's. Throw in some questions, we want some Q and A at the end.
And sometimes we get a curveball in front of 65 people where they're like, I don't understand what the heck is going on over here. I don't understand what, you know, who, who I contact here are, you know, and so you can't assume that, you know, just because leadership mentioned at one time.
[00:12:59] Speaker A: That's right.
[00:13:00] Speaker B: It's like your core values or your mission that everyone in the whole company has just got it. Understand it. Perfect.
[00:13:06] Speaker A: Yeah.
You're hitting the nail on the head and then culture goes with it. Which sounds like you're all hands on meeting, which we kind of do some things similar. But it's explaining the why is you make a decision, you know, because on paper it looks great, or you talk to your business partners and like, yeah, we're going to do this.
But then if you don't get the people in the trenches. And that's where a lot of my military background, they all, they know I'm in the military. I use so many military acronyms and analogies and so forth that they get it. But I'm like, it may look good here, but for the people in the trenches, it actually may not be good. So they may not understand the why of doing it. So you got to have the culture, which a lot of that is into explaining the why behind the decisions.
[00:13:47] Speaker B: Yeah. And then you need good feedback loops from like, if your culture is don't question anything, don't say anything, then they're just going to be in the trenches going, this is stupid. Why are we doing this? And then they'll just believe and the whole system will break. Versus, hey, I got to say something. This isn't a good idea.
Let me kick it back to the right channels or leadership, whoever, to, to say, hey, this is good in theory, but it's not working down here.
[00:14:17] Speaker A: Yeah, there's some things that if you change 401k vendors or things like that, I get it. That's, you know, if you can save money on the plan, you get in there and you can have a quick conversation. But if you're changing a third party medical records company or you're changing your case management system, you better have the folks in the trenches have their hands on those things, testing them out before you just go like, yeah, we're going to go with X. Because I think X looks great. Because I don't have A full caseload anymore. I have like 10. I have 10 cases, you know, because of my other role. So I'm not in the case management system, everything, you know, day to day. So you can't make just those seismic changes without having, you know, a multitude of inputs. Now, at the end of the day, you may still think system A is the right one and you make the decision where you may have had some splits or some factions within the. In the firm. But if you can explain, hey, this is why we went with A, Because A ultimately is going to integrate with B, which is another system we use better than system B. Wasn't going to integrate with that system. That's why you did it then. Even though people may have liked to be better, they're going to understand the why behind what you making the decision.
[00:15:25] Speaker B: Yeah, it's always good if you're going to make a hard decision like that, to have some reasons why.
[00:15:29] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:15:29] Speaker B: To back it up.
[00:15:31] Speaker A: Yep.
[00:15:32] Speaker B: Yeah. I don't know how many times we've done that. We've done this and then immediately see that it's not going to be a good, A good situation if we didn't bring in the right people.
[00:15:42] Speaker A: Yes, very much so.
[00:15:44] Speaker B: But you need your people to check you like that too. Or, you know, just go. It'll just eat everybody away and they'll end up, why do we lose our best case manager? Why we lose our best whatever. Because we didn't ask their opinion, we didn't bring them into it. So, yeah, I love that.
[00:16:01] Speaker A: The key is definitely do a trial. If you're going to do any new technology, you know, all the companies out there are going to let you do a trial run and it's like, get your people in there and play with it. You really want them to break it, is what you want them to do. You want to be able to say, yeah, this didn't work, this didn't work. You know, can the company go back and fix it? And we've done that, We've tried some things. And I've gone back to people and being like, yep, it's not a fit for us, you know, and there's some. Some of the programs we use now that maybe not. We're not necessarily the ones I was probably leaning toward. But then when the folks got in there and they're like, yeah, like this. Because it does this and it does this and this is going to help me and make me more efficient and I can do reporting this way. I'm like, perfect. I'm glad you, you know you were in there. So yeah, it's like we talked about. It's many hands make the load lighter. You know, you can't be in a silo, you can't just sit in the silo and make those decisions because it's going to impact so many people, it's going to have so many tentacles. You got to hear all those voices and all those opinions to make the right decision for the firm.
[00:16:57] Speaker B: Yeah, I think that's another good, you know, tip. There is, you know, any of the firms listening in small or big, there's all kinds of softwares and technologies and systems and things like that that you have to choose from and sometimes, yeah, just want to try out, test out a couple things in that platform. Don't just have to change right to it and make sure. Yeah, you get the people that are in the trenches to be the ones doing the testing and trying to break it and then get their opinions back. And you might not please everyone. You might have some people say I want this one and a few that say they want this one.
That's going to happen. But as long as you have good information to support the overall decision, it's a lot easier to have that conversation.
[00:17:45] Speaker A: Why agree 100%.
[00:17:49] Speaker B: A couple things you mentioned earlier, offline and recording, you mentioned a mastermind.
You said you had some kind of deal with that you stay out of their market.
What mastermind? Is it something that people know about? Is it private, but the fact that you're in a mastermind.
[00:18:09] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:18:09] Speaker B: Masterminds for me are, you know, they're the, the secret to getting ahead, in my opinion. Yep. And so, you know, what group are you part of and is that law firm specific?
[00:18:22] Speaker A: I would assume it is. I mean the one we're in, which we've been for gosh, 30, 30 years now is called MMG.
It is, it's by invitation only and I do think it's, it's, it's full is where we are because we kind of limit it to 20, 21st. But what I like about it is we don't compete head to head. There's no competition. You know, there's no cross market pollination as I say. So we can go in and have very frank and open discussions, which is wonderful. And it, and it's all PI firms all across the country.
You know, some are, some are similar to us, a few are a little smaller than us, some are extraordinarily larger. Larger than us.
But everyone's been getting together for so long now. We are all we're all friends, we text each other, we communicate and just share. And so we've been able to share successes of hey this vendor was a home run for us or be able to share that this vendor was a complete strikeout for us.
So I think regardless of what size for and we've been in a number of masterminds that's the one we've been most consistent with that we've. We're in and we'll stay in in perpetuity is my, is my goal. Just because it's such great people and it's, it is invaluable. But we've been in much smaller ones. But that's some of the best information I've ever gotten in the relationships that I've developed even from some we are no longer in Gives me a referral source and you know, a state that's nowhere close to Mississippi if we get that one off case. And those are perfect for whether you're a you know, one or two person law firm or whether you are A you know, 300 person law firm because you get there as long as you get the right one. And there are some wonderful ones. I mean I know Mike Morris has his and Mike has his and I know Mike. I'm not any with Mike but I know Mike very well actually my former marketing director is the COO now of his not law firm but of Fire. Of Fireproof.
I mean she's, she's running. She's the COO for the Fireproof side. And Mike does a. Does a great job. His law firm is amazing. I mean Pillman's one, Hughes and Coleman has one. It's called M L.
They've got one that actually will. I'll be attending in July for the, for the first time as we've got invited to it. And then we've been in some other been in one with Rob Levine. Rob does a great job legal. I think Legal ascend is what Rob. I met Rob number of years ago in a different mastermind and we hit it off because he was ex army. I was in the Army National Guard so we were able to talk some military stuff. And then Rob's an amazing attorney up in the northeast and does a lot with Social Security and disability and some other things. But yeah, those meetings have been great because A you make connections which is vitally important in the legal field. But you also if you get the right one and people are honest, you're hearing successes and failures and there's some things that I've, I've. I Mean, I write down notes, pages of notes at every time I go to a meeting. And most of them meet in person probably twice a year. And then the really good ones, you have some follow up zoom zoom meetings so you can have some accountability or some, some other things. And it can't be too big. You know, you don't need one that's 50 firms because then it's just too big. So you gotta find One that's probably 15 to 20 firms is to me is kind of the perfect, perfect size that you get there. But yeah, Masterminds, I live for those. I think they're the best thing that law firms have invented as a way to, to share information and help strengthen each other.
[00:21:58] Speaker B: Yeah, no, without a doubt.
And there's a eight figure firm, which is my good friend Louise Scott started. There's how to manage a small law firm.
There's a, there's a ton of groups out there. Yeah, Ken Hardison's pilma.
[00:22:12] Speaker A: Yeah, they just had their meeting. Yep.
[00:22:16] Speaker B: Yeah. So yeah, there's a ton of great groups out there and I would say. And a plug for mine. I have the manager. This is the managed partners master podcast. I have the managing partners Mastermind.
Not quite as formal I guess as the ones that you're talking about, but we just get together in a good, in a room and we once a month talk through challenges, share.
I bring in vendors to speak and just kind of, you know, talk through good, bad, the ugly. And yeah, we just do it once a month virtually. But just get in a room with, with folks.
Start your own Mastermind. You know, you could get other law firms in your community that you don't compete with and you can start your own.
But I think the power of the mastermind is invaluable.
[00:23:03] Speaker A: So I agree 100%.
[00:23:06] Speaker B: Obviously you all have been in one for 30 plus years.
[00:23:09] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:23:10] Speaker B: You see some value in it.
[00:23:12] Speaker A: Well, it's fun because in those you've seen, you've seen founders retire and transitions that have, that have taken place in firms and so you've seen the successes of them. So it's fun to, you know, there's one, I know there's one firm in it. It's now on, it's like third generation of ownership of the firm and they're absolutely fabulous attorneys. Consider all the partners of that firm very good friends. So yeah, it's just invaluable to, to be able to have those, you know, conversations. And the legal world's changing exponentially, you know, between AI and private equity and Everything else, it's. It's nice to be able to, you know, just throw ideas and hey, have you talked to this vendor? You work through this vendor. What are you hearing about P. E right now in the marketplace? And because you keep hearing about, all right, this firm got bought out and it was this amount. But then you talk to somebody else and they're like, yeah, they got bought out, but it was a different amount. And, you know, trying to find the truth somewhere there in the middle to get the real facts on the ground.
Yeah.
[00:24:10] Speaker B: I mean, yeah. To your. Wow. It's nice to have that. That place, that confidential, you know, room of people to bounce ideas off of, ask what they've heard. It's like you have your own little, you know, your own little CIA group. Right. So.
[00:24:26] Speaker A: Yep.
[00:24:27] Speaker B: It's a good thing.
[00:24:28] Speaker A: I agree 100 and confidentiality is the key is you. You got. You want to be with people that you can trust so that you can be, you know, open and honest when you're sharing, you know, information about, you know, this is what we're pay. This is how. What we're doing for leads is how we're doing. This is the cost of things. These are companies we like, companies we don't like that, you know, no one's going to go back and be like, yeah, well, I just. The mastermind. And Patrick said they really don't like you all, you know, that, you know, confidentiality is 100% the key between the success of these meetings.
[00:24:57] Speaker B: 100%.
Whatever happens in that room should stay in that room. Unless.
[00:25:01] Speaker A: Exactly. It's like what happens in Vegas phase. And.
Yeah, Yeah, I agree 100 with that.
[00:25:09] Speaker B: Well, so, yeah, anyone out there, if you're not in a mastermind and you own your own firm, you just started your firm, you might, you know, go find one and there's. There's tons of options out there. So find what's right for you. And.
And there's not a shortage of people that. That will welcome you into the group. So.
[00:25:29] Speaker A: And they don't have to be that expensive. And then, you know, they don't really have. They're not really that expensive. There's enough options out there that, you know, find one that's going to fit your. Fit your budget and then hopefully you learn successes from it which will grow, you know, grow your firm.
[00:25:43] Speaker B: Yeah, you know, I guess like you, I've been in different ones and moved around and just like having a coach, you don't have the same coach forever.
[00:25:50] Speaker A: You.
[00:25:50] Speaker B: You might. Different coaches for different areas different things.
So, yeah, there's different.
Mine right now, I don't charge anyone anything. So there's.
[00:25:59] Speaker A: That's awesome.
[00:25:59] Speaker B: You don't have to have even a paid one if you don't want to. But don't be stuck in your head in your office all day as a solo and say, hey, no one's helping me. I'm stuck to myself.
That's your join a mastermind that's going
[00:26:17] Speaker A: to help you out or the other thing. I laugh. There's a young attorney in our market who, um, we use the same vendor. And so the vendor reached out to me and said, hey, Web, there's this young attorney. He's a solo practitioner. I think he's really good. Can he come talk to you? And I'm like, yeah, give him my cell number. So he and I have gone to lunch a few times and I'm like, ask me questions. You know, at the end of the day, you know, on this side of the fence, I mean, I know everyone wants to make money, but at the end you should be. If you're in it for the right reasons. It's. You want people to be able to have representation to get what they're entitled to when you know someone was negligent and caused them an injury. So. And you're not going to get as much as everyone would say, I want 100% of the car wreck cases, or I want 100% slip and fall cases. That's not realistic.
So he's going to get cases. Well, I want him to get cases and I want him to handle them successfully. So I'm always. I'm happy to sit down and I'm 32 years in. I'm happy to mentor, you know, younger attorneys at this point and just, you know, answer questions. I have law school students doing that now just because of being on TV and radio and billboards and so forth. And we're right behind a. Of Mississippi College Law School, where I went. But, you know, if you're going to do it right, you need to spread, you know, with age. I like to. My dad says with age comes intelligence. So, you know, and comes wisdom. So hopefully you are, you know, sharing that with the younger generation, because we're not going to be here forever. There's going to be attorneys behind us. And hopefully you've set the foundation so that they can continue to, you know, represent the injured, you know, and do a good job. For me, the folks in Mississippi.
[00:27:51] Speaker B: Yeah, I love that. And so that's another tip for attorneys out there.
Mentors you can reach out to attorneys that are even competitors of yours. Right. In your market that you respect and ask if you can talk to them and just bend their ear.
Most of them will probably say, yes, I'd love to help you and I'm here to share whatever you need. I did that when I started my business in marketing is I reached out to all my competitors.
[00:28:19] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:28:19] Speaker B: And went and met them in person.
This probably before Zoom calls, I think, and you know, just got to know who they were, they knew who I was and I got a bunch of work from it, stuff they didn't want.
Also to me, they have a conflict of interest.
You know, they, they could toss it to me. So.
But I also just learned a lot from talking to them and they're, they're way ahead of where I was. So, yeah, people are open to that. So reach out, find some, some good folks in your market and you'd be surprised how much they are willing to help you.
[00:28:55] Speaker A: Yeah, there's no substitute for experience. So, you know, someone who's been doing it longer than me or even longer than you, they're going to have things that you may think, oh, I got the greatest idea. And they were like, yeah, we tried that 10 years ago and it was an abject, abject failure. So, you know, talk, talk to people. You know, one of the best things I laugh at a mastermind that I was at a meeting in May, a guy who founded a firm many, many years ago, he said every day the first thing he does when he's leaving his house is he still puts three of his business cards in his pocket. So if he's going to Starbucks, you know, he'll hand the, you know, can the cashier of the barista one of his business cards or if he goes somewhere else. So he's like, he says, usually by lunch, I've given out those three business cards because I give out a minimum of three business cards every sing.
And he's like just making a connection to people. Occasionally he'll get people who it's a personal injury firm that call him with a non personal injury question. And he'll be like, you know, I don't, or my firm doesn't handle that, but I can recommend you to marry or I can recommend you to Bob because they do adoptions or they do house closings or, you know, they do some other type of, of legal practice. And he really says, I'm doing it more as a service. He goes, I want people to have somebody they can call if they have a legal question.
[00:30:10] Speaker B: So 100%. I love that. And, you know, if he gives out three a day on average, that's over a thousand per year that he's standing out consistently. You know, so now you go do one time and say, this doesn't work.
He's consistent. He's been doing it.
[00:30:28] Speaker A: Exactly.
[00:30:28] Speaker B: It's hard to beat consistent over time.
So when we were talking before we were recording, this kind of ties in with that is he's known, he's trusted.
Regardless if it's for the exact thing he wants to be known for, personal injury or whatever it may be, it's that they just know, hey, he's a lawyer and I can go to him and he's going to connect me to the right person.
So you're that connector. That's great. I thought it's a lot of talk for an attorney.
It was last year at Law de Gras, which is an NTL event, and he talked about this. He wants to be known as the attorney that you like and trust.
Not necessarily. It has to be the car accident attorney.
And so if someone calls with another issue, I'm going to find someone that can help you. I got connections in my community to other lawyers that connect. So instead of him trying to be super specific, he just, hey, I know that he's an attorney and I like him and he seems like a good person. I'm going to reach out to him. I think that's an interesting strategy there.
Back to when we were talking earlier, though, you said you're in another state, Alabama.
And, you know, you're with your wife or whatever, and someone said your tagline.
[00:31:48] Speaker A: Yeah, they did.
[00:31:49] Speaker B: One call. Does it all. Is that what it is?
[00:31:52] Speaker A: One call. That's all. One call. That's all. Takes one call to get your.
[00:31:55] Speaker B: One call.
[00:31:56] Speaker A: Takes one call to get your case started.
[00:31:59] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:31:59] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:31:59] Speaker B: So, you know, he was telling me he's another state.
[00:32:02] Speaker A: Yep.
[00:32:02] Speaker B: Yeah, another state. You're walking through.
I forgot where you said you were.
[00:32:07] Speaker A: Mo. I was walking through Moe's. So shout out to your. To your buddy who you're talking about, who. Who founded it. But yeah, walking through the Moe. Where was our traditional stop? On the way to the beach.
[00:32:17] Speaker B: Yeah. And so someone recognized you. Someone recognized you.
And. But it's not just that. It's that you've, you know, marketing is not. Is one getting yourself out there, but the main thing is that you're building trust and people connect with you.
In this case, if you weren't very approachable, if you yelled on the TV about, you know, car accidents and cash and, you know, you might not be that likable, approachable in this case.
You know, you've built trust and authority in your market, but people feel they can approach you, they can talk to you. And that right there is what marketing is all about, you know, being that person to say, hey, I'm gonna go say hi to that guy. Because not that I just saw his stuff, but I feel, you know, I feel like I can trust this guy and. And ask him, you know, a question or, you know, approach him or whatever. So really good job you've done with that.
[00:33:19] Speaker A: Well, thanks. Yeah, you hit the nail on the head. I think it's, you know, you got to make fun of yourself. I told you, we do tick tocks. I am a terrible dancer. My wife will tell you I'm a terrible dancer. But, you know, you got some tick tocks of me dancing, just, you know, doing some silly stuff on tick tocks. There's some, you know, the legal minute, so some serious things where you can educate people. But, yeah, I think people need to realize you're just not a face on TV or a billboard or even for us, a voice on the radio every Monday as we're across the state on our statewide radio network, that it is. Okay. Like, I talk about my wife, my kids. We talk, you know, talk about hobbies, like, earlier talked about, like, getting the first peppers off my pepper plants, you know, earlier. Earlier in May, and how, you know, how they're doing. And my daughter's played softball forever. So the softball season, it's weird. In Mississippi, private school softball season starts July 31. They want to pick the hottest time of the year to go play softball games and goes through the beginning of October. But, you know, for all these years, I've talked about her and being at games and cheering and when she was on travel ball and. And all those things. And my other daughter, older daughter, was on the dance team. So you talk about that. So they realize it's like, okay, you know, he's a family, you know, family man and all those things. And you have to be. Actually was talking to an attorney over the weekend, and I said, look, what do you do for advertising? Because it's relatively small, firm, he's from a different state. And I said, regardless of what you do, you have to be authentic. You can't get up there and fake it. You have to be who you are, you know, as a person. And I said, I can kind of talk. In talking to you, you are, you know, more somewhat Soft spoken.
So that has to be. You can't be having fire and cannons and all these other crazy things on commercials, because that's not who you are as a person. That's not how you're going to be when people, you know, people meet you. So, you know, the founder of our firm, I love the man to death, and I wouldn't be where I was without him, but I laugh. He loved kind of loud, crazy commercials, you know, whereas I think ours are. Have transitioned a little bit more high brown. Now, we still have a lot of fun with our super bowl commercials. Without a. Without a doubt. Like, we did a parody on dodgeball for the super bowl this past year where we taking on big insurance.
We did a bowling spot, kind of a takeoff on the Big Lebowski for the Super Bowl 20, 25. So you still have some fun. You know, that. That's out there, but, you know, it's still authentic to who I am because I love sports, I love competing. So they. They, you know, tie in there. And people have come to realize Schwartz is actually going to have a really fun super bowl commercial because that's what we've done for, you know, four years. And they're a blast to go to go film. But be who you are when it comes to, you know, all your. All your marketing efforts.
[00:36:06] Speaker B: No. 100%. I love that. Yeah. Don't try to come up with something that you're not. People are going to sniff it out and it's, you know, again, it's a gimmick. Is like something you're trying to do to just get seen and views, but, you know, marketing, all forms of it, it's, you know, just building that consistency, that trust. Right. Just like the lawyer you told me about, the business cards.
[00:36:31] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:36:31] Speaker B: Always shows up consistent, will connect anybody and be helpful, and people know that. That know him. Yeah. So if you can do that and then, you know, you're on radio and it's also being just in a lot of places. Unfortunately, nowadays with search and AI and how people find a lawyer, it's. You can't just be in one place. You can't just do radio, you can't just do billboards, you can't just do SEO.
You have to look at the whole strategy.
But think about the trust factor as the main thing. Are we building trust?
And if we're not authentic or I'm trying to do something that I'm not, then you're not doing. You're not. You're eroding that trust potentially. So.
[00:37:14] Speaker A: Yeah.
And Then another big thing we talked about with smaller firms is, you know, go meet with big firms and we do this some and I know firms in other states do, if you're a smaller firm, go meet with them and say, hey, do you have cases y', all, you know, don't meet your criteria, but actually is a viable case. And how can I become a referral partner? I mean, I know lots of firms have built a lot of success that way, which gets back into that mentorship and having, you know, conversations. You have to be proactive and reach out to, you know, the firms. Don't be afraid of the 600 pound gorilla. You know, it's, I mean people think, you know, that's us. I mean people think of Morgan and Morgan that way. I mean, we could go through each state and identify who are the, you know, probably most well known brands and the number one advertisers on TV and PPC and so forth. But you know, if you're a smaller firm and you're like, I can't compete. I don't have a six figure, seven figure, you know, advertising, you know, budget. Well, those firms are going to have criteria of cases they take and have ones that, you know, they'll be happy to, you know, refer, you know, refer out to you. You gotta be prepared for it and you gotta do a good job and you gotta be accountable to the firm and be able to give updates and so forth. But that's a whole nother great mechanism for someone who's just starting out to develop that relationship with firms that are bigger than them.
[00:38:33] Speaker B: No, I think that's a great idea. Reach out. Cause they're not gonna reach out to you. They, they're, they're doing their thing and the other thing too, you know, you gotta updates and all that stuff if you're taking a referral. But guess what, you better be getting good at that anyway because now you're in a business and your clients are expecting you to do exactly that. So maybe good practice to get good at that. So.
Yeah. Well, Patrick, I love everything you had to share. I think ton of value in, well, everything you shared. But one rising up through a firm, becoming the partner, becoming CEO, culture being a very big part of the success there. Masterminds, invaluable for anyone listening. Mentorship, referral partners, being authentic, building that trust, not just marketing for the sake of getting views.
Those are all major things that have obviously made you all, you know, the largest firm in your state.
And anyone listening, if you just started your firm today, you can Compete, you can be relevant, you can make a name.
And I love the fact too like reach out to the bigger firms and just ask them, get on the radar.
They might say, hey, we're not adding referral partners for this right now. But stay on them, keep reaching out. And if not, they're not just going to, you know, call you up and say, hey, can you take these referrals?
[00:40:07] Speaker A: So yeah, you're hitting exactly on the head. You got to be consistent, you got to be diligent, you know, work, work hard. I mean at the end of the day, you know, this is not a 8 to 5 job. You're going to work some weekends, you're going to, you know, have some 15, 18 hour, you know, hour days if you've got a trial. But you know, but you still gotta have work life balance. At the same point, don't let you know there's the saying is the laws of jealous mistress.
But you've got to balance. If you have family, even if you're single, you've got a balance time where you go visiting your, your brother, sisters, family, aunts, uncles, you know, get that work, work life balance. And the nice thing is, you know, one of the positives that came out of COVID it's much more easy to be connected, to be, you know, in Bora Bora. And you can VPN back into your office if you, if you need to or take a call, you know, get quick call on a golf course or pickleball court or you know, wherever you, wherever you may be. But you definitely have to, don't get burned out because that is one of the biggest dangers to it, you know, to attorneys is that they just get in that burnout mode.
So balance, you know, having some fun in life with your family and friends and you know, your co workers.
[00:41:19] Speaker B: Well, all great lessons here from Patrick.
I appreciate you so much coming on the show.
And Jerem, what's the best way for our folks listening out there to connect with you?
[00:41:30] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. So the website's WWW dot one and that's the numeral one. Call Ms. Is the easiest way to get to the website.
You know, you can email me if you go there. You'll click and you'll find my email. It's just pwootoncall.org Happy to talk to anybody whether you're in Mississippi or whether you're in Timbuktu and you're attorney and you got a question or you know, even a non attorney, happy to reach out. So because you know the power of human Connection is immeasurable. So love to be able to, you know, share what appetizer size portions of wisdom that I may have.
[00:42:06] Speaker B: Well, I appreciate you being open with your time and yeah, people listening, connect to people, reach out to them.
Anyone that's been on this show, I'd urge you, I don't think I've had a guest that says, don't connect with me.
[00:42:20] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:42:21] Speaker B: And so, yeah, just reach out and if you find someone that you've heard that, like Patrick or Patrick himself, reach out and you'll be surprised what, what value they can give back to you. So appreciate it so much. Patrick, everyone, thank you so much for listening to this podcast and hope you got some value out of this episode. I definitely did.
And you know, Patrick's doing amazing things, so get out there, get after it and blaze your own path.
Patrick, thank you so much for being on the show.
[00:42:56] Speaker A: Thank you, Kevin. I appreciate it. It was fun. I enjoyed it. It's been the highlight of the day.
[00:43:01] Speaker B: I appreciate that. Well, stay on with me. Everyone else, thank you so much and we'll see you on the next episode.
