Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Your personal journey as a business owner is going to inform your flavor, your brand, your voice.
[00:00:08] Speaker B: What's up, everybody?
We're live, live here on the Managing Partners podcast.
So today, have a really cool new friend, but we've gotten to interact quite a few times in a very short amount of time. So excited to have her on. But before I introduce the star of the show today, always want to mention our friends over at Answering Legal. They answer my phones, but they specialize in answering phones for law firms. They take it all the way to intake. And a lot of what we're talking about today with my guests will be around client experience and intake and sales.
We can go on all day. But my guest today, Margarita, welcome to the show.
[00:00:57] Speaker A: Thank you so much for having me.
[00:00:59] Speaker B: Yeah. So a previous guest of mine and a friend of mine that I met through Louise Scott, I'm going to drop a bunch of names here. Louise Scott from Eight Figure Firm introduced me to Armando Leduc, who runs leduc Entertainment.
Me and him have done a few podcasts together, and he said, I need to connect you with Margarita. And I was like, I love Margaritas. So I was ready.
I was like, oh, her name is Margarita. Okay, that works too. So Margarita is awesome. She's got an awesome brand marketing boss. Her brand is amazing. She helps law firms in lots of different ways. And so we're here today to just riff and talk about those things. So, Margaret, please introduce yourself first.
[00:01:49] Speaker A: Well, hello, everyone. I'm Margarita and I am a California native made out of Mexican parts. So I'm fully bilingual, happy to say. And I absolutely love working with attorneys, and a lot of them do target Spanish speakers. And I'm really big into service, customer service, as well as the marketing piece, because I had noticed after over a decade of working with law firms that we would do this wonderful marketing because I was more in the marketing space. Right. I had an agency a while back, and we would do this amazing marketing. And, you know, similar to you, Kevin, we'd get the phone to ring and then meet with our clients. And what happened? How many cases did you sign up? None. Because the marketing was, you know, we care about you. You're important. You're more than just a number. But then when you would listen to the phone calls, you would get that, like, no emotion, like, you know, persons on the other line, like, just going through the worst time of their life. And the person at the law firm or the answering service or whoever, it's just not really connecting. And so I was inspired to. I'm a Data person. I was with Nielsen for over six years. I was inspired to really outline what are the main KPIs that I can now measure that are going to be a predictor of success with a qualified lead and to sign them up. And so I identified a handful of KPIs that I know that if these things happen on a call and on a scale of 1 to 10, they're closer to 10 than the 1, then the law firm is more likely to sign up more and more cases. And I came up with this methodology called Connect Convert, which I'm really excited about, and I wrote a book about it. And I developed a program that addresses the marketing piece, like your messaging has to match with the experience that you're creating.
Hello. You know, and then. And then also the psychology of it. Because here's the thing, Kevin. A lot of attorneys are really, well, meaning when they say, you're more than just a number. We care about you. They mean it. And they train their team to communicate that, to express that, to represent that. And there's this breakoff point or there's this gap between the good intention and the actual execution that happens. And it's. What I found is it's a mindset thing. And so part of our program and our secret sauce is we offer mindset coaching. So it's not just we help people understand how the sales process works, how to qualify the lead and. And what to do. We help them with a lot of love and empathy toward the, The. The staff understand where they are in their mind so they can be more aware of how to get to that other side. And I, I joke that it's kind of like, you know, we're in. In January. I don't know when this episode's going to come out, but when you see the gym packed in January, right? Everybody's like, I'm going to work out this year five times, one hour, weight training and cardio. And they have this idea and these intentions, and then the mind gets in the way. The mind tells you, oh, you know, there are other things that are more important or, you know, your family needs you, or you, you got to go to work instead, or you could use that hour for something else. And your mind messes with you. And before you know it, you're like, what happened? It's June, July. I'm getting ready to go to Cancun, right? Not to go down that rabbit hole, but that's where the mindset piece comes in. Because there are these beliefs, these emotions that maybe people are not aware of that are helping or not helping them. Excuse me, achieve that goal of creating that experience.
And then the other piece is automation. We have so many wonderful law firms that are using spreadsheets or that are using legal software for cases. But how do they follow up with the actual leads? Like, some leads need time to process what's happening to them and they do it all manually. And so then they don't have time to follow up, you know, Kevin, with the wonderful leads that firms like yours get them because they don't have the automation and they think, oh, well, too bad I just can't follow up with these leads. And so we also help with that piece as well. We analyze the setup and also the firm culture because we're. We're big believers and be human where it counts and then automate the rest. So it's not about getting rid of the human. Right. We're not going to not call people, not connect with them personally, but we want to automate and compliment what we're doing to shorten that sales cycle and increase those signups. So, yeah, that's what Marketing Boss is about. That's what I'm about. And it's such a passion.
[00:06:42] Speaker B: I can tell that for sure. And so is it marketingboss.com?
[00:06:45] Speaker A: Yeah, so it's marketing dashboss, because don't even ask me how much marketingboss.com was.
And I'm like, we're going to start with marketing dash boss. Yeah.
[00:06:55] Speaker B: So marketing dash boss. Go check her out while you're listening right now. Awesome website, good content, video. She's done a great job with all it, of course.
So I just wanted to talk about a couple of points you just made there.
Yeah, I think as lawyers, they all have good intentions. All my clients have good intentions to help their clients to do a good job. But as a leader, you just, you're putting that out there. But then you expect it just to happen through your team. And just because they believe it and they preach it, maybe that. Maybe it's just going to happen throughout the whole company. Everyone's going to be on the same page. The call center is going to be on the same page. It's not going to happen just like that. So you have to look at your systems, your processes and dig into that stuff, mystery shop your own firm and see how that goes.
The other thing is. Well, there's a couple things. The other thing is. Yeah, if a lead's not a client's not a client yet, then that lead might not be in your case. Management software. And to your point, you need to have a CRM of something to track them as a lead before they get into your case management software. So if you do have that disconnection or you don't have that, that's a problem. And then the other thing is, yeah, I get prospects all day. I talked to a guy just a bit ago. Leads are their problem, they think, and they think that's going to solve the problem. And while I want that to be the solution because that's what we get paid to do, there's usually a lot of other things that we have to ask them and dig into and bring in people like Margarita to help them fix. Because I can send you all the leads you want. If you're dropping the ball on most of them, then nothing's going to happen. The firm won't grow and you won't stay a client of ours. So today's episode is brought to you by Answering Legal. Now, I just switched my company array digital over to Answering Legal and it's made my life a whole lot easier. If I can't get to the phone, their 247 virtual receptionist take the call and take them through a full intake process so we never miss new business again.
Now Answering Legal has been at this for more than a decade and they specialize in answering phone calls for law firms like yours. They even have a brand new easy to use app and they integrate with all the top legal softwares and platforms.
So from our listeners today, we actually have a special deal of a 400 minute free trial offer of Answering Legal services that you can try out by going to answeringlegal.com array. You can also call 631-437-4803 and use special code Daisy. That's my last name. D A I S E Y.
So go check them out and let's get back to the show.
[00:10:09] Speaker A: Yeah, and I have to say that that's something I really respect about your agency and your business, that you have an understanding of all the things that your law firms need. But you're also clear on this is what we're going to focus on. Because what I noticed, especially in my agency career that, you know, when I had an agency is a lot of agencies are tempted to identify a need and then, oh, I'm going to do that now, I'm going to do that now. I'm going to do that now. And then you like try to do everything and you really don't give your client, the law firm owner, the best experience. And so I really Respect that about your agency that you're so laser focused. And I can relate because I've had clients that say to me, oh my gosh, like, why can't you just do my SEO? Why can't you just. And I'm just like going to stay in my space and I'm going to refer you to Kevin or I'm going to refer you to Armando for your podcast or. Yeah, I could, I know how. But I would be doing a disservice to my clients by getting outside of my unique lane.
[00:11:13] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:11:14] Speaker A: And I think that applies to our law firm owners as well. Right. So some law firm owners will niche down and do really well, grow really fast, because they're clear on their avatar. I, I'm thinking about these attorneys that do PI that I work with and they are so clear, they only want catastrophic cases. So their marketing reflects that. They're not going to run meta ads and get all that soft tissue stuff to fit. They're like, we don't want those. And it's so respectable because they're so clear on who they're target is and they're creating the experience for that specific person and it feels a lot more comfortable and flowy and seamless and, and it just. And then you get more referrals. And so I just, you know, I think that's a really good tip for law firm owners that are listening to this is, you know, there's a lot of value in niching down if you can handle other practice areas. That's amazing. But I think it's great when you niche down and then you create the marketing funnel, you create the customer experience the journey and then you then get those referrals as a just natural consequence of doing an amazing job up front.
[00:12:30] Speaker B: Yeah. When you niche and you're like, you know, here's who we serve and here who's best for us, then, yeah, you, you get the referral because like, man, that's, that's all Margarita does. Like, that's who I'm referring to. Now. It doesn't mean you might not get other referrals, you know, work and referrals that you can still handle.
[00:12:48] Speaker A: Right.
[00:12:49] Speaker B: And I think that's the big people. Everyone's scared about that. And I was before we niched. You don't have to say no to something, but you're, you're focused, lasered on like your ideal client situation that you know you can help, you can be profitable on and that you're going to get a referral and a review back from that, that client, that should be your focus every time. And so I think most people like, well, what if I got this other kind of case and I, I don't speak to them, you know, you can still take that.
[00:13:17] Speaker A: That's true, you can, you can still play in other areas. Like we, you know, we specialize in working with law firms, but I've got clients that are accountants, spas. We work with who we want to, but we're very clear about this is what we like, this is what we're creating an environment for. And then the people that work with us, we just tell them, hey, you know, this is our, you know, so if you get emails and things that apply only to law firms, you know, and they're like, oh yeah, it's fine, like it's worth it for them.
[00:13:46] Speaker B: So yeah, yeah, I have companies call me all the time locally because they'll find us, because you know, we're national, but you know, we will be found. And hey, can you help me? Like I see you do law firms, but you know, your stuff looks great. Can you guys help us and let me look, you know, let me check their situation out, if we can help them. Sure, no problem. And so yeah, we have some non law firm clients, but you'll never hear me talking about anything else without law firms. So just gotta be clear. And then not just like, like, what's the type of client now for us it's a little more complex because, you know, we're looking at like their history and their fit with us and communication, all these other things. And so it goes pretty deep with I'm interviewing a client on do we want to even have them as a client?
That situation is pretty deep.
[00:14:34] Speaker A: And I think some of that comes with experience too. And I don't mean like life experience, but I mean your personal journey as a business owner is going to inform your flavor, your brand, your voice. And it's okay if you don't know that right off the bat. So for example, marketing wise, you might know that your target audience is people injured in an auto accident. 25 to 54, predominantly female. Right. But then as you get to know your community, as you get cases, as you sign people up, as you work cases, you might identify other patterns that are important to you. Like, oh, I'm getting a lot of people from churches and you know, I'm a person of faith, I go to church. Maybe I'll niche down a little further. You're not saying, hey, if you don't go to church, don't come to Me, but you're speaking more about faith in your marketing.
[00:15:26] Speaker B: You appeal, you appeal to them.
[00:15:28] Speaker A: Right. And that, that I think is wonderful. You know, I have some clients that they're that clear on their avatar and I'm making this point because I think with marketing speak, the avatar, the target customer, the prototype, whatever you call it, whatever jargon you use, marketing wise, that's the easy way to do it and that should be the first step. But I want to invite law firm own to think outside that. And this is something that actually learned from a consultant that helped me really niche down even the personality. Like I know that I work really well with attorneys that gravitate towards sarcasm. Like that's how clear I am on my avatar. That you know, they, they like word puns like me because I'm that way too. And so I've gotten that clarity over time. And then also with the help of, you know, consultants that I've hired to help me see that. And I think that's such a great tip that I got that would, that I'm, you know, would share and encourage anybody listening to this. Think about your avatar in terms of marketing, but even think about your avatar in terms of who do you like to work with, where do they hang out, what is their personality? Like, what do they do for work, how do they live, what are some of the things that they like?
And yeah, and it can get a lot more fun, I think. And it makes it easier to sign up cases at the end of the day, right?
[00:16:54] Speaker B: Yeah, and every day like I actually I'll use an example. I'm talking to a law firm in Florida right now and I won't name who they are, but a couple things. One, if you go to their site it's like so not inviting and you don't even want to stay on it. And it shows because their bounce rate's like 90 some percent. So just drab and bad pictures and like, you know, and people think, well none of that matters, we're just pleasing Google and it's a website and it's there no, no way. Like people are making a decision if they're going to hire you on a few things in a very short amount of time. And so are you trustworthy? Are you experienced? And do they see themselves working with you? Can you handle their situation?
So one thing, there's so many conversion rate type of automatizations that you can make on your site that you should be looking for number two and got the same client that has the problems I just mentioned that offers Spanish speaking, like, focus on the Hispanic community, but through discussion.
Doesn't like it because he doesn't speak Spanish and he's got a few staff members do, but he kind of is abrasive to that side and doesn't really understand it as much and like, but he's got it plaster all over his website. So either a, lean into it and put things in place to support that community or stay away from it and don't mention it at all and focus on who you help.
[00:18:26] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, no, that's really good advice. And I think going back to your point about branding and creating the look and feel and how important it is as a complement to all the technical things that you can do, your target customers are probably, if you listen to your own phone calls right now, reflecting the vibe you're giving out. I'll give you an example. I once worked with a business attorney and this attorney kept getting calls and we were working with a, with a pretty decent vendor that was getting leads and all of that. And they couldn't sign up the cases or the clients because they kept haggling. They kept saying, oh, can you do it cheaper? Can you? And they were like, like, these are not good leads. But then when you looked at the branding, it looked cheap.
So, you know, it's like you did all the things, you bought all the keywords, you know, your, your marketing team bought all the keywords and targeted the, the ads. But the vibe your visuals are giving off is this is cheap, like, you know, half done, like, and so they're thinking, oh, this one looks, you know, let me ask for a discount.
[00:19:41] Speaker B: So, yeah, I mean, a potential client's going to go, ooh, they look expensive. Oh, those are, you know, and they're going to go through that process. I mean, especially if they're looking like, hey, I can't afford this. I don't know what I'm going to do.
100%. I have divorce firms that are like high end, super expensive, like downtown Chicago divorce, and that their brand is polished. It's beautiful. It's, it's high end. Their office is insane. Like, you don't, if you walked in there, you'd be like, oh, probably can't afford these people. And then I have other ones that do like pro bono work and the owners have like done well in their life and they've decided that they want to do almost help people that can't afford to even do family law types, not just divorce, but other adoptions and all this other stuff. So two totally different clients. Two totally different websites and messaging and everything.
So it's decide on what you want to do. And I've, you know, divorce only for women. One of my clients is the largest divorce firm in the country. Divorce only for men.
So you can really get niche down and, and figure out what you want to do and, and get specific. And all the firms and agencies that I know that have just blown up, they all niche.
[00:21:03] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. I had a marketing boss and he was thinking about starting a firm, like years down the line, hired us, and his avatar was CEO, like male CEOs. That's who he wanted to work with. And I remember because we started early, like we had time to really think through, you know, we even put together a mood board, like, you know, cigar lounge feel. And the photography had to be like this and the lighting. And we got that detailed, created a brand guide for them, created a strategy that then, you know, we found vendors, freelancers, whoever, you know, people in his network to create all of the assets. So by the time he launched, he was express. Like his brand was expressing what it needed to express to really attract that target avatar. Like, that's not even generating leads yet. Like, he did all this work up front, you know, created the customer journey, the emails, you know, the, you know, you've contacted me because your spouse is asking you for more child support. Here's what you need to know about these kinds of cases. Had all that already mapped out. And I will say he did this kicking and screaming because he's an attorney and he's like, oh, I don't want to do any of this, right?
But I told them, trust me, like, you have to do this upfront so that when you're too busy because you don't have a job anymore, you started your own firm and you're managing cases. You don't have to then stop doing that like a lot of other attorneys do, to do this later because you're going to eventually, you're going to eventually have to take this medicine, like, to scale to a certain point.
And, and yeah, like, it was, it was so it was satisfying for me to see that like right out the gate, like day one, website funnels, like all of it built out clear avatar, you know, so when he started to do social media and do all of these other things, like, we didn't have to fix anything because we already had the brand guide. We knew who we were going after. And like I said, over time I'm sure he'll figure out, you know, other things about his avatar personality where they like to hang out. You know, do they like to shop at the icebox, or do they like Rolex watches? Like, he'll. I'm sure he'll figure that out in time, but, you know, and that'll come as he gets his own internal data. But it's really nice to have that clarity, create the experience, and then sign up the cases the way that you're supposed to with less effort.
[00:23:29] Speaker B: So I love that. I think a lot of lawyers listening probably wish they took time to do that, or even me, when I started, I just, boom, you know, here I go. I'm just going to try to get leads and network, and that's what I did. But to have that time to plan and to think about things and what she's saying, you're gonna have to go through. And most firms wait till way later to even bring on, have enough even revenue to, like, even think about it or hire somebody. And they hit a lot of struggle points and break points. And so if you can do that up front, that's, you know, that's amazing. So I would say, anyone listening? And here's the cool thing, like, through this podcast, which has been so awesome, a lot of listeners reach out to me. Some become clients, but a lot are like, hey, I don't even own a law firm yet. I'm sitting in my office right now and I'm planning, and I got like, three or four that I talk to right now that are like, maybe in a year, maybe in six months. And I'm like, what? Have you thought about this? What are you going to do about that? And they don't really have the budget to, like, hire us to do all this stuff, but they're thinking ahead of time. And so, yeah, anyone listening? If you're trying to, like, thinking about going off on your own or whatever, reach out, I'm not, you know, trying to sell you anything. But Margarita, other people that you probably need help from starting this journey. Happy to connect you and. And get the help you need.
[00:24:54] Speaker A: Yeah. And. And to expand on, you know, if you're listening to this and you haven't started your law firm, I gave you a case study where, you know, yeah, we can help you at marketing boss. But, like, if you're not in a position to even do anything with us, for me, this is my life mission. And I could get into so many different ways in which, like, I feel like this is my calling.
But I'll share one simple story where I was with a client. This was maybe eight years ago, and this was in an agency role. And this client was so excited about this platform called TikTok. And he came to me and my, my business partners and was like, you know, hey, I really want to look into this. And I was like, you know what? Like, I, I've been posting on it already. I think it's cool and I think it's going to be great and it's going to be great for legal. And, you know, and I'm like geeking out with him and my, you know, business partners are like kicking me under the table, like, you know, and I'm like, okay. And later on they were like, you know, our business model is more for long form, cinematic tv, like video. Like, if we do this, it's going to be cost prohibitive for us to execute at a budget that makes sense for this client. Let's maybe encourage something else. And it was one of the biggest regrets of my life, but it planted a seed of I don't ever want to have to choose between what's best for my attorney clients and what's best for me. And so for me, the CMO role, the leadership piece, the strategy piece, it's my passion. And I have created resources that even if you don't hire us, you can DIY some of these things or you can consume content on our app on our website. You know, we do masterminds as well and we find. I personally am always trying to think of ways how can I help more law firm owners at different stages of their business. Of course, I love working with law firm owners that are investing, you know, millions in their marketing. Those are definitely our sweet spot. But we do have, and I personally have this calling of helping as many law firm owners as possible with these insights with this. For me, it's an empowerment. You know, like even the swag that we give away is, you know, it doesn't even, some of it doesn't even have our logo. It's self made, self paid. Like, we want to encourage you to like own it, like own your bossness, right? The, the name marketing boss, it's not intended to say we're the marketing boss. It's to say you're a boss. We're going to make you a marketing boss. Right? The interpretations turned into something else. I'm going with it. But the initial intention was I want to encourage law firm owners to really own their marketing, to really lead it the way, to steer it the way that they want to in the way that they deserve. You know, and the other thing that I'll say is so many law firm owners shy away from marketing altogether, or they hesitate or they're, you know, suffer analysis paralysis because, oh, it's too saturated, right? Like the PI attorneys. Oh, I'm not going to get on Google because, you know, it's going to be 600 per, you know, click or whatever, and I can't afford that and all that. It's like, I get it, but get. Get to a headspace where it's not just about you. And I'm saying this with respect. There are people out there that are hurt, right? People like my father, who was hurt at work, construction worker, Mexican immigrant, was too scared to hire an attorney. And nobody advertised to him. Nobody told him through marketing, hey, Francisco, you don't have to suck it up. You can still provide for your family. I can be your lawyer. I get emotional thinking about it because I live this as a little girl, you know, and my family was impacted by that. And, you know, I've been through a divorce. I want the divorce attorneys out there that actually care and aren't going to just instigate a fight between couples to run up the bill to reach clients that need them. You know, I have so many friends that I've talked to that went through the divorce process with attorneys, and we have all sorts of insights, right? And so I take all that, and I think, wow, like, they're really good attorneys that care, that want to do a good job, that have wonderful processes. You know, the immigration attorney that is going to make sure not to mess up your file and isn't going to advise you to go get a work permit, you know, with an asylum case that's going to get you deported in three years. Those are the attorneys that I just get so passionate about helping, because a lot of the times, those are the very attorneys that are like, oh, you know, I don't want to do this, or I don't want to put myself out there. I don't want to do social media. And they're the very ones that people need. So if you're listening to this and you're like, oh, my gosh, like, I am, you know, hesitating moving forward with digital ads or moving forward with building funnels, you know, think about that. It's not just about you. It's about these people that deserve better. And, you know, and I mean that, like. And again, I'm getting a little emotional, so maybe ask me another question. But it's just. It's. It's so big, you know, the legal field, I have so much respect for attorneys and that you help with people with some of the worst moments of their lives. And, you know, our passion is to help you do that better.
[00:30:11] Speaker B: I love that. And I completely agree. You know, going into working with attorneys, it's like, people always go, why? Why would you choose that?
Y'all are special, you know, And I. I probably had a worse answer back when we decided. But getting to know all the attorneys, all my clients are attorneys. My guests on this show most of the time are attorneys and friends. I have so many great friends that are attorneys. I just know so many good ones, and they do great things. Most of them are very good and trying to help people. And, yeah, to your point, if you're the best and you're gonna help people, why not be found? Why not show up? Why not get that client, help that client and have them tell their friends and turn that into more referral business? And so I have a real quick story, and then we'll flip it. But I had a lady I was speaking to a couple years ago, and she was looking for some help, but just, like, basic stuff, and she's like, well, you know, I don't want to market, or, you know, I just need, like, a website. I just, you know, I just need to make sure my message is clear. And she was doing, like, civil rights type cases and stuff like that. And she had this little office because she did a. I did a video call with her, and she was like. There was, like, file cabinets, and she was just by herself in this little, like, closet, like, kind of a place. And I was like, so you don't want to market? You don't want to, like, get your name out? No, that's. I'm just here to, you know, to help people. And I don't, you know, I don't want to, you know, to go that route. And. And I don't want to. I don't want to make money. I don't want to grow. I wanted to just help people. So I said, well, you're so passionate what you do, and you're helping people, and your mission is to help as many people as you can. And she's like, absolutely. I was like, well, we need to get you in front of more people. Like, how are you going to help more people if they don't know who you are? And she was. I could see, like, this light bulb. She was just like, oh, my gosh. You know, and so she thought she was doing the right thing by not marketing herself, by. By staying out of the spotlight.
[00:32:09] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:32:09] Speaker B: And she was the most passionate person in that whole town or city that did what she did 100% right.
[00:32:15] Speaker A: So it's almost like this righteousness, this, like, humility. This, like, humility. And it's like, I get it. And, you know, I don't know if she was, you know, Hispanic or African American or whatever, but I see it a lot in communities of color where it's almost like, oh, the success and helping are mutually exclusive.
I went through it myself, you know, like, oh, well, I'm gonna try not to charge too much because I want to help more people. And yeah, that's.
[00:32:46] Speaker B: Yeah, you're just fighting against the same thing. You, you're not making any money. You can't market, you can't expand, and you can't help more people. Yeah, yeah, yep, yep. Just a limiting belief, right? So.
[00:32:58] Speaker A: Exactly. It's definitely a limiting belief that I pray more awesome attorneys breakthrough. Because there are people that deserve better in the legal space. So. Yeah.
[00:33:10] Speaker B: Well, I appreciate the conversation. I know we've talked about a couple different things and I know, you know, the, the sales piece of things. Maybe we can touch on that for a minute.
You know, we talk about marketing and branding and positioning and focusing on your Right avatar and all those good things, but then you're getting the leads, right? They're coming through the door. You know, the sales component of a firm is, Is usually broken at some point. I just referred Margarita to a client that's having the exact problem where those things start to work. You figure those things out, you start getting the cases, and then you look at it and go, wow, we got all these leads and we only closed 10 of them.
No follow up plan, no CRM.
So I just want to hit on that just for a second and maybe a few tips you could throw out there for our awesome lawyers listening.
[00:34:03] Speaker A: Yeah, I'll give you. I'll give you one. I'll focus on one that's a. A fun. I'm gonna call it a. A party. A party trick. Right. Where ghosting. Let's talk about ghosting. So a lot of law firms experience ghosting and they just accept it. And there are actually ways that you can predict when somebody is likely to ghost you. And it's if you skip a couple of steps in a conversation. So, for example, the psychology of ghosting is I want to tell you, no, I don't like confrontation, so I'm going to ghost you. Or I have questions that I never asked you that I didn't know how to articulate because I'm all stressed out and in my head, and so I have analysis paralysis. So I'm going to ghost you. The other one is I've got somebody in my ear that I've got to check with or telling me what to do. And they have questions, they have analysis paralysis. I don't want to deal with it. I'm going to ghost you. Or and how serious this really is.
So I'm going to just procrastinate and I'm going to ghost you. So. So that those are the psychological things that happen before somebody's going to ghost you. And so the indicators or the things that you can do to minimize ghosting in a conversation with a potential new client is even if they don't ask you why you're the best, tell them why you're the best. Look for emotional cues that lets you know that they're ready to say yes and actually follow through. So that's called a yes with commitment. For example, if somebody says, I'm so glad that I called you, that's relief. If somebody says, oh my God, what do I do next? Because I'm ready to get this divorce, like, just send me the paperwork I want to start, like right now. That's excitement. Those two emotions are indicators that they're going to say yes and there's a commitment there.
The other thing that you can do, and we measure these KPIs in my methodology, of course, is you can reassure the person that they called the right place. You can personalize the conversation by using their name. So if I say to you, you know, Kevin, my name's Margarita, you know, I'm going to do everything that I can to help you. And by the way, I'm so glad that you called us. I'm going to set you up. I'm going to set an appointment up for you with such and such. And you know, such and such is the best. Now I'm transferring the trust for me to this person. And you're now getting that reassurance. Kevin, your appointments on Friday at 10. I'm going to give you a minute to write that down. You're now, psychologically, I almost picture it like the Little Mermaid. I know it's a little girly. When the Little Mermaid signs the contract, that's the psychological tick of asking somebody to put it in their calendar to write something down. Even if in your head you're like, whatever, you know, like, I'm going to give you a minute to write down our address. I'm going to give you a minute to Put the appointment in your calendar. I'm also going to send you a text. Did you get it? Reply back that you got it. Just reply back with a yes. Those acts are like them psychologically, emotionally signing a contract, and it'll help minimize ghosting. Those are, like, some of the funnest lessons that we teach because everybody's like, oh, like, you can even apply this in your real life.
[00:37:13] Speaker B: That's great. That's awesome.
[00:37:15] Speaker A: In your normal, everyday life. I mean, it works. It's all emotion. So. So, yeah, I could go on forever, but that's one that I. I can share. That's, like, simple that anybody can relate to who hasn't been ghosted in your law firm, in life, like, anywhere. Like, that's. That's the psychology of it.
[00:37:34] Speaker B: I love it. I. I definitely have a ghosted tag in my CRM.
[00:37:38] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:37:39] Speaker B: For. For law firms that reach out to us. So.
[00:37:43] Speaker A: They didn't ask that there's a question that they didn't ask that you didn't answer.
[00:37:47] Speaker B: There's something. Something that could have been done. Right. So I appreciate you sharing those. Those are really cool, and it definitely makes you think and, you know, yeah, getting the yes. Get some yeses along the way, and then they're. They're finding themselves saying yes to things, and you're. You're getting that. That commitment to that. That one small yes. Put this in your calendar to get my text. Like, all those things are psychologically telling them too. Like, okay, yes, I want to move forward.
That's awesome. I love it. I'm gonna try that with my wife for dinner tonight.
[00:38:18] Speaker A: It works. It works. Okay, write this down. This is what we're having for dinner.
I do it with my kids. I. I credit my kids with Connect Convert so much, because everything that I ever wanted to put in that book and in that methodology, I tested it on them, and I'm like, if it works with them.
I have five little boys, and they are so stubborn all over the place, and I'm like, if I can get them to actually say yes to taking out the trash and actually doing it, then this works.
So.
[00:38:51] Speaker B: Wow. I might hire you for. For home management, right?
[00:38:55] Speaker A: Yeah. I got two kids everywhere.
[00:38:59] Speaker B: Five. I don't know.
[00:39:00] Speaker A: It's. It's fun. It's fun. But I definitely. Yeah, I tested everything on them, so I love it.
[00:39:06] Speaker B: That's awesome. Well, great tips. I love it.
Everyone, please connect with Margarita. If you don't know how to find her for some reason, connect with me. I'll connect you, but marketing-boss.com she's on LinkedIn, she's on Facebook. She's everywhere. But what's the best way for someone that's listening right now? A lawyer that's even trying to start or one that's well beyond that? What's the best way for them to connect with you?
[00:39:34] Speaker A: Social media. I love social media. I usually respond within the hour to any dm. That's really the easiest way. And then the second best way is text. But you're not going to get my cell phone until, you know, we make sure you're, you know, Kevin or you pass my crazy test. But yeah, social media is the easiest, you know. Yeah.
[00:39:55] Speaker B: Awesome. Well, yeah, so, yeah, please check her out. She's awesome. Check out everything she's doing. And you know, I was just on a mastermind call that she had earlier and she invited me on. So she's just been wonderful. I'm excited to get to know her more and together help help more law firms out.
Appreciate you have come on the show and any final words before we go?
[00:40:18] Speaker A: You are in an amazing position to help so many people. And if you made it through law school and through the bar, you have everything that it takes to be successful and scale as much as you want. Don't ever doubt that. And I just want to encourage you. I think that that's really the biggest thing that I can leave you with is a reminder that you're a boss.
[00:40:42] Speaker B: I love it. Marketing boss, everyone, it's 2025. Let's make it a great year. And if you need any help, reach out. We're here to help you. We'll talk to you soon. See ya.
