Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: I tell them in these meetings, you know, look, I'm not foolish to think you're going to work here forever. You, maybe you will, but I always say that. But, you know, if you leave and you go somewhere else, I hope that you remember this time as a place where you are invested in. Right. Where we tried to see you grow. And you may outgrow us and move on to somewhere else, but you look back with a good experience, and I think there's a certain hunger for that.
[00:00:39] Speaker B: Most firms survive. The best ones scale.
Welcome to the Managing Partners Podcast, where law firm leaders learn to think bigger. I'm Kevin. Daisy. Let's jump in. Hey. Hey, everyone. Welcome to another episode of the Managing Partners podcast. Wherever you are, I appreciate you. And our goal is to get you some good information.
Learn from our guest here. Apply that to your law firm. So excited to have John David Huffman on the show today. Coming out of Atlanta, we have a mutual friend, Margarita Eberlein with marketing boss. She reached out to connect us and what he has to share today, we have kind of very similar path as well. So excited to learn directly from John David today as well, along with you all. John David, welcome to the show.
[00:01:24] Speaker A: Thank you, Kevin. Excited to be here. Hope to learn something from you as well today.
[00:01:28] Speaker B: You know, I try to contribute if I can, but yeah, it's all, it's all about my guests. And, you know, I'm going through business just like everyone that's listening.
It never stops. You know, there's always things to work on and improve. And whenever I can share what we're doing that's working, I will 100% do that. And that's, that's why I love this show and doing it, it's my passion is the business side and, and helping others figure things out. And when you see something work for somebody and they light up about it, that's. That's the best thing we can do. So if you would, sir, introduce yourself, tell us a little bit about your firm, what you specialize in. Obviously, we have a lot of attorneys that listen, always looking to make those connections. So maybe someone needs a referral partner or someone like yourself in your area. So give us a little background on you and your firm.
[00:02:19] Speaker A: Sure.
So we're in Atlanta and we have typically what's called a business litigation firm, basically three practice areas that we focus in. Business litigation, real estate litigation, and intellectual property. And we tend to have a lot of cases that sort of circle around fraud in those categories.
Sometimes it's personal. A lot of times it's within a company or within a real estate investment or within some sort of business transaction. So I always tell people that we tend to find ourselves in complicated, deception oriented cases for the most part.
[00:02:53] Speaker B: Interesting. Yeah, I mean, I could see how that would, could get interesting, if you will, you know, keep, keep things exciting, I guess, if you will.
[00:03:04] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:03:05] Speaker B: So you're based out of Atlanta?
[00:03:06] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:03:08] Speaker B: You know, tell me a little bit more about your firm. I know you have quite a few lawyers over there.
Tell us a little bit about kind of your staff set up and things like that.
[00:03:18] Speaker A: Sure. So currently we've got about 40 total people. About half of them are lawyers.
Our type of practice, we tend to be much more lawyer heavy than some of the other types of practices like personal injury or immigration, because the lawyers are the ones doing the heavy lifting in the cases. So. Running about half and half at the moment.
[00:03:37] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, that's a good point. I think, you know, I see a lot of, you know, the business firms and kind of their growth strategy is bringing in the lawyers. Right. Lawyers bring in the referral partner referral sources, their networks, which is definitely different than, you know, divorce or personal injury or your consumer side, you know, where you have a lot more staff, a lot more marketing and things like that. So I really want to touch on some of the things that you had noted down when you met with my team. And I, I, I love kind of how it was broke down, but really kind of, kind of your cultural transformation, if you will, and focus on growth, but doing that, having to kind of really put in other systems training, things like that. But I'm just really interested to kind of see like, what has this been like for y'?
[00:04:27] Speaker A: All?
[00:04:27] Speaker B: When did you come about kind of making these changes?
What prompted you to do that? And, and then I just want to know more about what, what you have done and what you're doing and we'll just kind of have fun with it from there.
[00:04:40] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. Well, a couple years ago, I, I guess I had sort of an experience almost like a religious experience, but of course it wasn't.
I, I discovered just a different mindset about life and a growth mindset people talk about and, but it was something that was different and new to me. Maybe something I wasn't exposed to, or maybe I was exposed to it and it just didn't ever register. But I was at a conference with Crisp, it's a law firm coaching and marketing company, and just listened to speaker after speaker and I had sort of reached a plateau in my own Personal Life. I had 10 lawyers working for me individually on my team and was sort of plateauing and topping out and exhausted. And you sort of hear, you know, you read the business books and it's a, it's a pattern that people fall into. And I was frustrated, but also just didn't think I could really go any further and was sort of exposed to a different mindset. And that mindset primarily was, you know, focus on your own growth. The hardest person to lead is yourself.
Figure out how to do it and change and grow. And from that point was sort of a launching pad. I mean, it started slow and just took step after step. And I'm excited about sort of the momentum that I have individually and that we have as a firm and just the things I'm learning. And you know, I took the intensity of a litigator and sort of turned it inward to myself, that sort of warrior thinking or winning competitiveness, and really focused it on how can I grow, how can I get better, what am I not good at? And really trying to embrace the personality traits, not shy away from them. And that's, that's difficult but, but necessary. You're gonna go beyond where you are.
[00:06:31] Speaker B: No, I love all that. It's spot on too. Like, you're kind of having that like, moment and I, you know, I, I talk to lawyers all the time that take that first step out of the office, go to like a conference or a mastermind, or just get in the room with other folks. And sometimes they've never done that before and they've just kind of been trying to grow their firm on their own, doing their own thing. And yeah, they might get some tips and have a mentors, but I think really getting exposed to that content and listening to those speakers like you did is hu. I think it's the secret to growing a business. I think, you know, getting outta your comfort zone, going somewhere, putting yourself in a room that you're not comfortable in, maybe and listen to what other people are doing and then kind of bringing that back home and saying, all right, here's, here's things that we can do to improve. So yeah, kudos on that. But you know, it's challenging if you're just sitting in the office by yourself, even if you have a partner, right? Or two. Like you're, you're all, you know, you're just trying to think what you think's gonna work, right? You're just, yeah, I read this book and I think we should do this. But, you know, nothing beats getting in that room Full of people that also want to help you and see you grow too. Everyone's always open to share. There's so much information out there. Yeah, I mean, it's kind of crisp, obviously.
[00:07:42] Speaker A: I'm sorry, I mean, to cut you off, but I was just gonna say it's kind of like that in any area of life, you know, if you. If you're sort of stuck as a. As a father, you know, we're both fathers, or you're stuck in your marriage or you're stuck in friendships or things, you know, you gotta get out and get exposure to somebody who's beyond where you're at, because you just don't know what you don't know. I think embracing that teachability has been something that was important for me. It's a. It's a. I mean, a couple years ago, I might have said something. I mean, I don't know it all, but I feel like I got like 80% of life figured out, you know, And I don't know if I would have quantified it exactly, but that was sort of my. My heart, you know, and. But you get out and you. You start to go, man, there's so much to learn. I got, you know, when you get exposure like that, you're. You know, now I'm. Maybe I got a 20 of life figured out. You know, I got a thing or
[00:08:29] Speaker B: two, but that's pretty good. That's pretty good.
Yeah.
[00:08:33] Speaker A: I mean, it's sort of a foundation for learning.
[00:08:36] Speaker B: Yeah, it's, you know, and kind of being in that mindset of I'm not good at everything. I'm not gonna ever be good at everything.
And you can start to, you know, lean on people that are around you that are like, hey, you hired me because I'm good at this, and, you know, let them do their thing or hire other people, vendors, whatever it may be. But just realizing, hey, I don't know everything, and that's okay. Who can help me with that? You know, who's the best at that, that wants to help us?
[00:09:07] Speaker A: For me, that took a little bit of a shift internally because you're. You're kind of focused. At least I was focused on success. I mean, I want to be successful, and I want to be successful in all these different areas. And as a trial lawyer, that was sort of my main goal. And I found over time and listening to some people to try to shift my mindset of one from success to significance. Let other people succeed, you know, find joy and satisfaction and pouring into others and mentoring others and letting them thrive, letting them do the best. And all of a sudden you look around and you go, you know, I really wasn't as good as this person is, Alex. And it's fun, it's rewarding, but it's hard to take those steps. And it is continuing to be hard for me as I step into new things and let go of old things.
That transition is difficult.
[00:10:02] Speaker B: Yeah. Once you make that shift, though, it's super rewarding to see your people, you know, or bring someone that you see, you know, see something in, and they're succeeding, but they're also way better than you, and they're taking stuff that you're like, wow, I didn't really want to do that anyway, but they are 10 times better than me. And they're bringing new ideas and they're helping grow that department.
It's just really cool to see that as they. They go. I mean, I've had an intern now, head of our hr. Like, started as an intern young and now is like, just.
She can run circles around everybody.
But we had originally hired her as, like, an admin part time. Like, we didn't even know what we needed. So. But she's told us what we need and, and, and grew over the last couple years just into, like, you know, again, running HR for the whole company, training, career paths, like, crazy stuff. So you just never know what someone's capable of sometimes. But also to your point, too, like, I'm constantly, you know, offloading something that I started to do, and I'm. I get passionate about it, and then it's like, all right, now it's time to hand it off to someone else. It's like, oh, okay, now. So I'm. I'm constantly reinventing myself and, and sometimes that's kind of weird. And, you know, it keeps things different and changing, I guess. But.
But it sounds like something similar that you're. You're experiencing as well. So tell me more. So with, like, this, what changes have you made to kind of get your team on board with this and having that kind of growth kind of culture, if you will, where that matters to them? Like, why should they care that you're growing? Why should they care if the firm is making money, you know, And.
But what. What's really what you have to do to kind of put things in place where the team's on board with this and your culture's kind of shifted because of it?
[00:11:51] Speaker A: Yeah, that's a great question. And it was, it was a slow evolution, and I think it continues to be an evolution as we bring new people in to sort of integrate them into that culture. Lawyers are inherently skeptical by nature and probably have been the toughest group to bring along. But slowly but surely people are coming along. And I think at least one of my thoughts along this is to tell people, I've said this in several firm wide meetings or in smaller groups. Part of the reason that we're doing this leadership training and we do, we do a lot of different levels of leadership training from book clubs to a core leadership group. Now I'm taking a whole firm, we've kind of divided up into a couple groups through, through a leadership book.
But the. I tell them in these meetings, you know, look, I'm not, I'm not foolish to think you're going to work here forever, but I hope that you, maybe you will, but I always say that, but, but you know, if you leave and you go somewhere else, I hope that you remember this time as, as a place where you were invested in, right where we tried to see you grow. And you may outgrow us and move on to somewhere else, but you look back with, with a good experience.
And I think there's a certain hunger for, you know, when we talk about leadership training, a lot of it's values training, you know, character training. And I think there's a certain hunger for that that people have that they don't initially recognize or they may initially bristle against. Not everybody, but some people, like, why do we need this? It's a little too, you know, well, I don't want to put somebody's name on, on the Internet, but you know, they may think of some positive thinker or speaker that's a little too much, a little over the top for them. And so you get, you get lumped in with them. But consistency's mattered for us. Just dripping it out. I send out like a weekly email with growth thoughts and mindsets. And sometimes we talk about simple things like communication.
We talked recently about drifting, but it's sort of repeating the values and over time people for the most part are coming along. So
[00:13:59] Speaker B: you definitely have to be consistent. I think as the owners, the visionaries, like, you know, what you see and where you want to go.
But for anyone else to see that, you can't just tell em once. You can't just say, hey, here's our mission and our vision, here's and that's it. And they all have it, they got it. I've heard this at, you know, at conferences and masterminds. It's like, you know, so we have a company, a monthly company meeting and we go through that every single month.
And we'll, we'll get people to raise hands, contribute to, read off our mission statement, read off our core values.
We give out awards every month that are tied to core values and send out like handmade glass, like, you know, trophies each quarter. So, so we gotta, you know, we just keep finding ways to weave it in because they don't just remember all that if you just say it once or twice. So I think consistency is a great, great tip there that, you know, you gotta keep preaching it. I love the leadership tips. The book club. We actually have a book club too. It's not, not necessarily on leadership. It's more like, hey, here's a book we're all reading together. If you want to read it, you can opt in and we'll send you the book. But I love that idea. That's great.
[00:15:06] Speaker A: What are your, what's your like, top one or two core values that you really like at your fun?
[00:15:11] Speaker B: Yeah, so.
Well, ours are just so you have them all. It's quality, urgency, winning, transparency. Transparency is number one.
I think that that's the hardest one for people to get behind naturally. It's also the one that we probably see the, you know, we see it less often as the other ones because like, quality is like, hey, you know, John David just, you know, crushed this whatever project and I can, you know, I've, I've talked about this before, but we have like an internal like gamified system. So I could like give you kudos publicly on a slack system and I hashtag our core value. Okay, so your work was really good. I can hashtag quality, give you points, and then you can be eligible to win for the month and get a bonus and all kinds of stuff. So. And sometimes people have, you know, it might be quality and winning and urgency because you did it quickly and you know, you had a good mindset about it. So that's kind of how, what we do here. But I think transparency is the hardest because say you're a client of mine and we managed your website and we did your marketing and let's just say your website went down on our servers for an hour on a Sunday at 4 in the morning. We used to as a company would be like, oh, that site went down 4 in the morning Sunday. Eh, no one will ever know. Who cares. But our culture now is, hey, John David let you know that your site was down for about an hour on Sunday about 4:00am uh, it's been Resolved. We don't know what the problem is. We're looking into it. Wanted to let you know, or this might be, you know, internal. Mostly internal stuff. Hey, this person said these things or did these things, and they bring light to it. This client said something very offensive to me or rude. We'll be transparent with our clients, too. So it's. I think that's just been the hardest one, especially for younger, newer folks that come on board because they know everything we do here is transparent. And even though it's uncomfortable, we're going to share it and bring it to light.
[00:17:14] Speaker A: So, I mean, what a great principle. Because, I mean, that type of integrity really filters through an organization. I mean, from the top down, when you say that. I remember we had a vendor that miscalculated how much money that we owed them, and our accountant came and caught it and she said, well, what should we do?
And I said, well, we should tell them, you know, we owe the money. Right. I mean, if we. It'd be easy in a business. Just ignore it or let them try to catch you. But that type of honesty and integrity is, I think, impossible to replace. What it. What it gets you throughout the organization and loyalty and other attributes.
Right. I mean, it's just, yeah, simple. Just be honest and with people. But it's.
It's hard to work out every day, so.
[00:18:04] Speaker B: Well, yeah, well, you know, our core values have morphed over the years. They've been steady for probably six or so years, but. But we didn't, you know, we were. We had. Honestly used to be one. And I remember someone, we were in a workshop, and they're like, honestly, like, if you're not honest, you shouldn't even work here. So they were. They basically said we had low, low bar, you know, core values, transparency really, you know, came out of a few. And that one, that's, again, I think that's our. Our biggest one. The other one I didn't mention because I only said four is passion. So passion's another big one. But if you're not passionate about what you're doing, you know, obviously you don't want to be here.
That's not going to work out. But again, transparency, go back to. That is the toughest one.
And we just had a client that, you know, we had some issues that we messed up on something. And. But there was a lot of client issues, too. So there's a lot of stuff. So we do this lesson. It's called a lessons learned. So it's like, all right, let's dive through the whole situation and figure out what happened. And without trying to throw anyone on the bus, it's like, we just want to see what happened. And then we, we can report that to the client, like, hey, here's. Here's what we found.
And then we can go to the people that might have been the problem and say, hey, this is. And then we say, all right, what's the process change? How are we going to fix this? It's usually a process issue or communication issue. But again, I think also it uncovers bad eggs, right? Bad actors. So when you have a culture of transparency, like someone can't just hide in the corner and cause issues and talk behind people's backs or be negative for very long around here, you know, because they're going to get called out real quick.
[00:19:40] Speaker A: I love that. What a great.
[00:19:42] Speaker B: I think, I mean, I'm not. This is your show. I don't want you to talk too much. But that's the biggest issue, I think, with business is like having those, you know, ups and downs, ebbs and flows. When you have a bad person in your firm that, you know, damages the culture and takes them down, you know, takes down a lot of people with them, hey, why do we lose that a player? And you come to find out two years later, this one person might have caused a bunch of havoc.
So are you in any ongoing groups or systems? Do you guys run off, like, you know, like Eos or any kind of framework?
[00:20:18] Speaker A: We run off like paper EOs. We don't have a, like a sophisticated software program buying it now, but we, we meet every quarter and come up with our goals for the quarter. We do yearly planning and we do some, some other planning individually throughout the, throughout the year.
[00:20:35] Speaker B: So I love that. So. Well, the book trash and is bottom of my head. I mention that book often.
If you just open that book. Anyone listening? Open traction the book. Get the book traction. But what John David was just saying, like, there's, there's predefined meetings and, and touch points, goals setting, quarterly meetings. You have to be doing this stuff even if you're, if you're a solo, you know, grab your spouse or somebody or by yourself, go sit down and, and just have the time to think about these things. You know, I think a lot of lawyers that listen to the show, if they're small or starting out or solo, like thinking they have to have a big team or whatever to, to justify some of these things.
[00:21:15] Speaker A: Yeah, they should be, you know, if you're solo starting out, I mean, you should have Networking goals and how many, how many lunches you're going to go to and how many events you're going to go to and what other actor. 100% I wanted to, to build, build your phone, how many hours you're going to bill or how many whatever actions you're going to take. If you need contingency practice to move the ball forward.
[00:21:35] Speaker B: Yeah, well, yeah, because the work's always going to be there. You're going to be busy. Like you have to focus on those things if you want to, if you want to grow and hopefully if you're listening to the show, you want to grow at least to some extent. You know, you don't have to be John and even size or my size or whatever. But if you, if you're five people, you need good systems. If you're a hundred people, you need good systems and you need, you need those things in place. So what's some, you know, what, what's some books or, you know, maybe your book club's done recently or some of your top ones that, that have been helpful to you all.
[00:22:08] Speaker A: So I love John Maxwell's resources.
21 laws, 21 irrefutable laws of Leadership is a great one. We're actually going through his 15 laws of growth right now in our book club. So there's a reason he's like the number one guy out there. So. Love his stuff.
Personal development.
I love the classics.
I also love the Miracle Morning book, which is by.
[00:22:35] Speaker B: Okay, yeah, yeah.
[00:22:36] Speaker A: Which sort of talks about six things that all successful people do in the mornings. I think getting your morning right is very important.
And getting your great book.
[00:22:45] Speaker B: Great guy too. I've.
I feel like me and him have been friends on Facebook for a long, many, many years.
[00:22:51] Speaker A: Oh, yeah.
[00:22:51] Speaker B: But the Miracle Morning is a great book. Great book.
[00:22:54] Speaker A: That was one of the first books I read sort of on my journey and set my. Set my course. So those are squeeze offers. Yeah.
[00:23:02] Speaker B: I used to not be a morning person. Now I can't sleep past like six in the morning. But there's a lot to that. You know, if you can't get your crap together in the morning, then how's the day gonna go? Right? So I think there's, there's a lot to that for sure. What's the future look like? Big plans for the firm? You know, what's, what's your main focus other than obviously, you know, the leadership and the culture shift and the growth mindset. How are you guys working with things with like AI and changes like that? What do you kind of see, you know, the next step for your al sperm.
[00:23:39] Speaker A: Well, regarding AI, it's going to be interesting how it evolves in our practice. I mean I know that in personal injury practices and some other sort of high velocity firms, let me say, you know, criminal maybe and family, it may be covered. Yeah, it may become more to the forefront quicker. The main issue we're having with AI right now is trying to convince our clients that AI is not correct all the time. That's the main issue. So it's actually, it's causing the cases to be more complex and sometimes expensive for our clients and the waiving attorney client privilege by putting information into, you know, AI. But I imagine it's going to make things cheaper over time. We, we have started to use it for, you know, drafting some documents, drafting some discovery requests, things of that nature. Our cases tend to be very customized. So I know we will probably be later adopters in our space and that seems to be true of all the different firms I've talked to regarding AI.
[00:24:40] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, no, you know, I will say, you know I, I Talk to more B2C consumer side firms for sure. Just, just seems to be who I talk to the most. But a lot of the, the things that are kind of repetitive intake too and, and client experience and updates, communication. So I, I definitely there's some applications out there for sure but I haven't really talked to many, you know, folks in your type of practice and how they're leveraging and using it. But also. Yeah, how, how I can make things more complex. You know, if your clients are using AI and they, they put stuff out there, I know in divorce it can be definitely a big issue.
[00:25:21] Speaker A: So yeah, I mean they'll, they'll use it to draft long emails and correspondence and giving us direction and then you know, we're having to sort of unwind that often and so it's, it's an educational process for us to come out certainly different. I mean we even a year ago, I mean I don't even know if we had any clients in it a year ago and now it's seemingly, you know, a very large, maybe not the majority, but a large percentage.
[00:25:46] Speaker B: We've had a couple clients that literally just you know, we do marketing for these clients like so we'll get like these chatgpt like responses, emails like you're saying that's like. But they won't even look at the stuff that we sent them or reviewed and they just send us all this stuff and it's like, and then we'll respond back to that. And they'll respond back with clearly another ChatGPT response. And it's like. It's like they're not even paying attention to what's going on. So.
[00:26:13] Speaker A: Yep.
[00:26:13] Speaker B: So your experience, I can relate.
Yeah, we, it's. Listen, people use AI. There's a lot of application for it, but don't want it to be your default to like everything.
What is maybe a good tip, final tip you'd give to again, maybe a solo or maybe a lawyer that's on the edge getting ready to go start their own.
Their own firm in 2026.
[00:26:42] Speaker A: My advice to somebody who's going to start their own firm in 2026.
Well, probably if you're starting your own firm, top of mind for you is how do I get business, how to develop business? That's probably top of mind. And, and I would say become friends, legitimate, true friends with people that are likely to send you business.
That was the way that I built my book of business.
And I think you do that by trying to. To add value to them as much as you can, as often as you can.
And if I had a parting thought for everybody, no matter where they're at, I would just. Let's just all add value to others more. I mean, we all are leaders in some capacity because we all have influence over other people, whether it's our family or friends or firm, with or without a title. And, and one of our core values is to. Is to add value to every client. And I try to come to work and go about my life asking a question, who am I going to add value to today? How can I add value to them and live in that way? So that would be my parting advice.
[00:27:49] Speaker B: That is great advice. No, I love that. I think. And then what you said too, about, you know, if you're starting out and getting in, you know, just. You need business.
Yeah. Being authentic is kind of, you know, a way you saying what you said is not just going out to, to try to walk around and get referrals, but truly listening, trying to see how you can add value. Making friends today with AI too. Like, it's people taking shortcuts, you know, the folks that can actually have a relationship, spend time talking in person or, you know, at least without distraction. I think it just stands out to everyone more and more these days because of all the noise that we have. So transparency. I think there's transparency. Transparency, yes.
[00:28:36] Speaker A: Yeah, that's right.
[00:28:38] Speaker B: Yeah, for sure.
Yeah. If you need a lot of leads, call me. But I talk about this all the time. Like, if you're a firm starting out and you need leads, you can hire agencies or marketing people, whatever. But you have to have a good brand, which means you have to get a run a good business, which means you have to have a good reputation, which means you have to take care of your clients, which means yada, yada, yada. So you. You can't just succeed without those things. So add value. I love, I love that. How can I add value, you know, to this person I'm speaking with right now or this interaction that I'm having right now? I think that's a great, great tip. It will serve you well. Well, I appreciate it, sir. What is the best way for attorneys or others that are listening to connect with you directly or through the firm?
[00:29:22] Speaker A: Yeah, so you can go to our firm website. We fight fearlessly.com if you want to find a firm. And I have a personal page atjohn david huffman.com. so thank you, Kevin. It's been a pleasure being on your podcast. Thank you. Fine body.
[00:29:34] Speaker B: Thank you. Love everything you had to share and the path that you're on. I think there's a lot of great lessons in there for sure. And love the leadership path, the book club, you know, just embracing all those things and, and, you know, taking, taking that time to step back and say, all right, we have a culture just like you have a brand. Like, but how do we actually impact it and make sure it. It's going the right direction and, and for everyone there, like, you know, why would they. Why do they want to be there? And let's take note of that. And, like, how do we, you know, direct it to some degree to where we all want it to go? Because this is your life. You mean you spend more time probably at work than anywhere else. So it's.
It's a family.
[00:30:16] Speaker A: Right.
[00:30:17] Speaker B: Got to treat it as that, so. Well, John and David, thank you so much, sir, for joining me on the show. Everyone, thank you for tuning in. And please reach out and connect with him. If you want a personal introduction, email introduction, reach out to me and I'll make it happen. So we'll see you on the next episode.
[00:30:34] Speaker A: Thank you, Captain.
