Building a Bold Law Firm Brand

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign. [00:00:18] Speaker B: Most firms survive. The best ones scale. Welcome to the Managing Partners podcast, where law firm leaders learn to think bigger. I'm Kevin. Daisy. Let's jump in. All right, we are recording. Lee. What's up, man? [00:00:38] Speaker A: What's up, Kevin? Thanks for having me. [00:00:40] Speaker B: My middle name is Lee. Probably didn't know that. [00:00:42] Speaker A: I was thinking when I was coming on here today that you could, like, have a play on Pushing Daisies, right, with your podcast, you know? [00:00:51] Speaker B: Yeah. Actually, it's funny, people. I. I moved from my hometown, which is an island, by the way, off the east coast. And so really small area. Small island. And people where I'm live now in Virginia beach are like, man, you must have got pick picked on and beat up, you know, for your last name being Daisy. And I was like, well, not where I'm from, because we own most of the stuff around the island. Not that my family's not rich at all. It's just we have, like, a clamming company and like a, you know, a dock with. For, like, fishing. Just random stuff. [00:01:27] Speaker A: It's a good name. It's. I guess it dovetails with branding. [00:01:30] Speaker B: Right. [00:01:31] Speaker A: Like, you could do stuff with it. Some people get these names, like, what are you going to do with that? [00:01:34] Speaker B: That's right. Just like your name. Right. [00:01:37] Speaker A: So I. I stepped in it, you know, especially if you're going to be a PI Lawyer, it doesn't hurt. [00:01:41] Speaker B: We're going to get some branding and marketing here just in a minute. But wanted to just come out with a question for you. For my young attorneys or my new. Well, those thinking about starting their own firm, I always like to focus on them. I have a lot of experts on the show and people that have done great things, but I like to make sure that those ones that are about to jump out and hang their own shingle and all that good stuff. So what's some words of wisdom? Something you would tell a new lawyer about to start their own firm right. [00:02:13] Speaker A: Now, Let me start with this, which is I was in their shoes because I did not plan for this. This is something that came to me as an offer I had to refuse from my old firm, and that's how this firm came to be. So a lot of what I can share, and I'm happy to do it right. So if you have any listeners that want to shoot me an email, reach out to my team, schedule a call, happy to do it, because I learned by necessity. But the more I've learned, the more I. I've been, I mean, enthralled with the Process. And it's just. It's a new adventure every day, you know, new entrepreneurial adventure, but in a space that, you know, I was comfortable in substantively. So what's the one thing? And I used to laugh at my old managing partners at different firms, but cash flow, Cash flow. So you want to start out on your own, you got to figure out, hey, can I make it 90 days, 120 days before I see a dime? Because if you're an hourly billing client, excuse me, an hourly billing firm, the work you do on day one, if you're lucky, you get paid on day 31. Maybe you got a retainer, but maybe you bill it on day 31, which means you don't see it maybe till day 60. Maybe it's day 90. So I think if you can get through that and start getting the cycle of money coming in, it'll allow you to sleep a little bit better. And that's not dissimilar to the contingency fee model, right? If you get that first case and they go treat for three months, your demand gets out. Maybe you're seeing some money month four, maybe. Maybe it's month five. But if you can weather that storm, it gives you some peace of mind and we can talk ad nauseam about kind of how to build the firm in a skinny way. But that's the key, right? Understand where your threshold is, or you're not taking any money and you got to be able to survive. So, you know, what's that date that you can bite hard and get through it? [00:04:03] Speaker B: That's huge. I mean, in my business, I think, you know, just having most business owners that I've known throughout my business life that, you know, understand cash flow and focus on that. And no matter what your business is, and especially in the legal field, like you're saying four months, I mean, you know, I couldn't imagine going back to when I started if I had four months, five months without any pay coming, no money coming in. [00:04:31] Speaker A: Kevin, think about it the other way. It's not just no money coming in, but you're probably bleeding out of every orifice because you're trying to market. You might have to go in the beginning. You gotta pay your malpractice insurance. You've gotta go get technology. Maybe you just are operating off of one phone. So the money's all going out, and not all of it could be on a credit card. So you have hopefully a nest egg to launch. And then you have hopefully some money coming in. Cause maybe you had a couple Clients or you knew what you could do to start. But you have to have that tolerance because it's going to be painful in the beginning. [00:05:07] Speaker B: Yeah. Well, then I think it's the next thing you said is staying skinny, being efficient, not to get a couple good wins and then go, ooh, let me hire people I don't need, or add systems or technology I don't need, or get that awesome office. And I'm in my first year and, you know, I just want to have that. That look that I'm doing good. But staying skinny and lean and being able to grow efficiently I think is massively important. [00:05:37] Speaker A: So, you know, and it depends on who your audience is. Kevin. So, like, I. I stayed super skinny for over a year, and I just. I'm in an office now because I felt like I could. Had to stop meeting clients at the coffee shop near my house. And, you know, eventually you're gonna get big enough where you do have to purport a certain image. But a lot of folks, you know, when I tell people kind of what I'm doing, leveraging technology, leveraging virtual staff, they're super intrigued because maybe they didn't think it could be done that way. And so you're showing them that you're working smarter and staying skinny. Who's going to tell you that's a bad idea? [00:06:16] Speaker B: Nobody on this show, that's for sure. [00:06:18] Speaker A: Nope. Echo chamber. [00:06:21] Speaker B: Yeah, no, it's great. It's, you know, with the. The virtual staffing and technology and, you know, being able to have video calls and things, it's just so much has changed in the last few years, last few months. Yeah. AI there's. There's so many things out there that you can leverage and use to, you know, streamline your business, keep. Keep your cost down, but also improve the experience the client's having. [00:06:47] Speaker A: That's right. Yeah. [00:06:50] Speaker B: Yeah. That's pretty cool. So, real quick, obviously, root in law down in Louisiana. You also practice in Texas, but. Yeah. Tell us a little bit about the name and the brand and kind of, I guess your story. Let's dive into that. [00:07:09] Speaker A: So I kind of alluded to it. Before I came out of a defense model, I worked as a defense lawyer. I wouldn't say exclusively, but the percentages were high. Percentage defense work with a sprinkling of plaintiff, maybe commercial lid or some little bit of personal injury. For about a dozen years. I was at my last firm, which was a great firm and one that I really wouldn't have thought to leave. But organically, I had grown this plaintiff PI practice. And I loved it. I liked helping people. I liked, you know, the sales component of it, you know, trying to attract that client, because it's not that easy to go attract an insurance company or a corporate client. There's a lot of red tape. So getting those wins can be very difficult. But when you're. When you're handling work for small businesses and individuals, there's a lot of those people. And you meet them on the street, you meet them at the grocery store, and you can make a sale just by listening to somebody and maybe just doing a decent thing for him by just giving them a little bit of free advice and being a sounding board. And that sort of, I'll say, generosity with information led to opportunities to represent people, people close to me. Then they told their friends and their neighbors, and it began to snowball until I built a practice that rivaled my defense practice at the last firm. And my firm said, you know, we never envisioned you building a plaintiff PI Practice in our defense firm, and so we have to curtail your growth, and we want to shift the money. And I said, you ain't doing the first one, and you ain't doing the second one. And that was it. And I was leaving for vacation. They told this to me at my annual review. I was leaving two days later to go on vacation. I spent the entire time in Mexico calling back to the US Trying to figure out from friends and colleagues, like, what does it take at a minimum, to hang your own shingle? And once I knew what that was going to be, I figured out which of the clients would come with me. You know, what kind of PI Work that I have, what kind of hourly work that I have, how many months would it take to survive? I knew I had the tolerance for it. And that was it. June 1, 2023, we launched Rootin Law. So we're about to hit two years. We grossed seven figures in our first full calendar year. So that was. That was awesome. We may double it this year. [00:09:30] Speaker B: That's huge, man. [00:09:31] Speaker A: Yeah, we're. I mean, this. A lot of this business, I've come to learn, is a numbers game, you know, and if you know how to pull the right levers in marketing and you're willing to take a chance sometimes because there's. You gotta be. Gotta be aggressive, and you gotta know sometimes you might lose your shirt, but if you don't do that, there's. You're not going to be able to pounce on those opportunities. And so that's. [00:09:55] Speaker B: That's awesome. Yeah. First year, seven Figures. That's an accomplishment right there. I know it's an older stat, but it's a few years old probably. But I think it's like 4%. 4% of businesses get past a million in revenue, like in the whole country or something like that. It's a. It's a small, small percentage. [00:10:18] Speaker A: So, look, I can't imagine more power to all the people that. Whether they do it because they wanted to or they do it because they had to. I was lucky to have been at firms with good partners and, you know, was obviously running a different kind of business, but watching them run a business and they were generous with ideas and explaining to me how certain things worked. And I was interested in learning about it. Not as much the marketing, but at least the operations side, because, man coming out, not knowing how this is all supposed to work, because, folks, you don't learn this in law school. And so a lot of it is just trying to figure it out. And that's why I love doing things like this or going to conferences and talking to colleagues and vendors, because you just learn kind of how the sausage is made. And if you figure out, if you take a liking to it, which I do, it could be really fun. [00:11:06] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, just, you know, falling in love with the business side of things is, you know, for me, where it's at. You know, I don't. I don't do marketing or SEO for clients or build websites. I haven't done that in a long time. I like. I like what we do, but it's. It's more growing the business and marketing the business and being successful and talking to clients and, you know, and winning, you know, it's. But then, yeah, to your point, that's why I love the spot chest and having people like you on the show or going to conferences. What else can you figure out and learn? What is Lee doing that maybe I could apply to my business? And that's why I enjoy the show mostly more than marketing or getting my name out there and what I can pick up on. So it's pretty fun. Pretty fun stuff. So you just dove right in and came right out the gate. You're almost in your second year. You might hit 2 million. I mean, that's. That's pretty strong. So congratulations. I love your brand. Everyone check out. Is it get rude get rude.com or get rude, get rude. [00:12:16] Speaker A: Com? So. So this is the mentality, right? I. When I came out, my first calendar year was June one to. My first year was calendar year 2023. Right. So those seven months. I was operating under a different slogan because I was doing hybrid work. I was doing some defense work, doing some plaintiff work. I joke and I don't know if I can curse on your show, but I'm gonna do it anyway. I said, you can't say, fuck the insurance company and represent the insurance company. Oh, you can't. You can't. I mean, not. Not if you wanna do it with a straight face. So what I did was I'd be talking to folks like you, and I'd ask them, hey, hey, Kevin, are you tired of getting pushed around by the insurance company? And they'd look at me, they'd do what you just did. They'd smirk, they'd give me a wry smile, and I'd say, because you got to stop being polite and get rude. And they'd chuckle. And I said, I think this is going to work. I think it's going to work. It's silly to some, and to others, they're going to look at it like, yeah, that guy is going to get rude with the insurance company. But either way, they shouldn't forget it. [00:13:16] Speaker B: Yeah, all right. Love it. [00:13:18] Speaker A: That's it. That's marketing, right? You just don't want to when the. When the accident happens, God bless you if it happens, because they're underneath your billboard. All right? But if not, they got to remember who you are, you know? And in this day and age, a lot of guys, they'll tie their. Their brand to a phone number or something. I'm not a fan. I'll probably make fun of it on a social media video at some point. I got some ideas, but, you know, and I don't. I don't have a last name that you can't do nothing with. Right. Obviously, I was able to pivot it into rude because my last name is Rudin. But I mean, some folks, they've got these names and it's like, well, what are you going to do? Maybe you go with just your two law firm name. So you'll go with initials and acronym, whatever. You got to make something happen. I'm just lucky that it works for the kind of lawyer that I am and my personality. [00:14:07] Speaker B: Yeah. And then also, you know, so, yeah, you got to stand out. You got to be yourself. And especially pulling those two things together. Right. And not making stuff up or just kind of going in some direction, you're not really naturally that way. It's just not going to work out well for you, I think. You know, like, you got your rude mania shirt on, which is awesome. And if you get. [00:14:29] Speaker A: Look over here. I'm show you this. So that's the WWE Championship belt, and I can tell you a story about that, too. [00:14:35] Speaker B: We got to hear about that for sure. But go to his website, take a look at the. The brand and the style of the website, and you'll just get a feel for, you know, how he's different than most of the law firms you would typically see down the street. Little, you know, bland, polished kind of suit and tie, typical kind of firm. He's. He's going the opposite direction of that. So you got to stand out. You got to be different, especially in this market. [00:15:04] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, this is a market where maybe you or I or the folks listening to your podcast, we're not hiring somebody who's advertising because we're probably calling our friend and saying, hey, I got into an accident. Who should I use now? You still might use me, right? Or a peer of mine, because we're quality. But you don't know that. We just happen to be advertising. You know, my mentality is, in what business would you come out, try to operate a business and not tell anybody what you do? But lawyers do that all the time. And so I said, I'm a. I don't believe in that at all. I think we should be out there marketing. But if I'm going to do it because it is a chore, I want to like it. I want to have fun. So, you know, you could check out my website. We've got a social media carousel towards the bottom. But. But go onto my Instagram or my TikTok or my YouTube. It's all at rude law. And I just want to have fun with it. So, like I told my social media vendor, I'm never going to write a static ad that says, Merry Christmas, Happy Hanukkah. Like, I'm never doing it. But I will get dressed up as Santa Claus or I'll spin a dreidel, or I'll get dressed like the Easter Bunny, or, you name it, if I think it's going to be fun and silly and I can be clever about writing the script like, I want to do it because I'll enjoy it and maybe it'll work. People don't know. You don't know what's going to work. You just try. [00:16:24] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, yeah, your social media is phenomenal. So you guys got to check that out. So, you know, with Lee here, really, you know, he's got the unique brand. He's got. He's having fun with it. He's enjoying the social media, he's enjoying the advertising. So that all comes through, too. Like, if you're. If you're seen or shown in video, people want to have that connection. I tell clients all the time, or we're any law firm with zero video on their website and they're not doing social. It's like people today need, you know, before hiring a lawyer. They've never hired a lawyer, hopefully, probably not. Like, what do they expect? They need to feel comfortable. They need to trust you. So there's a lot of conversion kind of tactics that kind of play out through the social and through video or through your brand or your website, where they go, you know what? I feel like, you know, I can talk to this guy. I feel like he can take care of my case. I feel like he knows what he's talking about. And so. But first is getting noticed that you're even there as an option. Right? So. [00:17:30] Speaker A: So, Kevin, my first foray into these videos, right? My. My real foray into what we're doing now. I was. I playing a pickup basketball game, and it's a Saturday. I'm in the lane, and a guy comes through the lane, a big guy, and catches me with an elbow. And so I have the best shiner of my life. And I'm due to film content on Wednesday, Saturday. I'm like, what the heck am I going to do? I said, I'm going to rewrite all these scripts, and I'm going to write as if I have a black eye, because I do. And so I did one like a boxer. I did one laying in a handicapped parking spot, having just gotten, like, knocked out after an accident. And I did one dressed like a clown. My dad looked at me and he said, lee, you know, don't you think you're going to destroy your reputation dressing like a clown on the Internet? I was like, dad, what reputation? No one knows who I am. And so I got to stop and know me before they're going to care whether I'm dressed like a sheep or a clown or all the other things that I get dressed as. And maybe half of them will hate me, but the other half will be like that crazy bastard. He's going to be the guy that's going to win my case because he's going to think outside the box to get the job done, just like he's doing on the Internet. I don't know. I don't know what people think. [00:18:39] Speaker B: Yeah. Not being known is way bigger of your problem. Right? Obscurity. Right. No one Knows who you are, what you do. That's your problem more so than anything else. And so you can't. Well, I think I've advertised too much in that area. No, you have not. Like, you cannot get yourself in front of the same people enough times. Right. And so it's. And if they even seen it, do they hold on to it? Do you. You know, there's. No, not a chance. [00:19:09] Speaker A: So there's two things that I think I'll know that it, like, it really worked. If I'm walking the concourse at the Smoothie King center or the Superdome and someone's like, oh, that's the get rude guy. Right. If that happens, that's one. And the second one is little kids dressing like he at Halloween, then you know that your local marketing has permeated into the common space. And that tells you, like, all right, I think you've made an inroad, so we'll see. [00:19:40] Speaker B: That's awesome. [00:19:41] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:19:42] Speaker B: So, yeah, anyone that's like, yeah, I don't think it's too much or whatever, yet you have. If you're new, you have no reputation. Owners, you are. And, and, and that's your, your biggest concern, honestly. You need to get your name out there. You need to be known. Yeah. Like, I think back to what you, like, have fun with it. Like, if you're not having fun and you're like, ugh, I don't want to do this, this isn't me, or I don't like this, then it's not gonna come through that you're enjoying it. So that's super important. [00:20:14] Speaker A: But it's part of the job, right? So, like that, that's the thing. If you wanna be out there no matter what, whether you wanna be an advertising lawyer or not, you can't have a vacant or dormant social media profile because that's a place that people go to gather information. So your website can be as polished as you want, but if you have two posts and they're from four years ago, and you have nothing on YouTube, which is, you know, apparently the second largest search engine in the world behind Google, if you're not doing that, you're doing yourself a disservice. And, you know, the legal industry is funny because folks think they're holier than thou, but you're still running a business, so you gotta do what's good for the business. Obviously you want to do it the right way, ethically and with the best interest of your clients. But like you said, obscurity, that's going to be the Nail in the coffin. [00:21:03] Speaker B: Yeah, it was a grant. Cardone says if you don't know me, you can't flow me. So my cash flow he's talking about can't hire him or buy one of his products or invest in one of his companies if you don't know who I am, you know, so when someone. [00:21:20] Speaker A: Told me and I'm going to botch the statistic that, you know Morgan and Morgan, the biggest 800 pound gorilla, right, they come into a market and their share of the market is sub 20%. Right. That's the biggest player in the space. That means there's 80%. Now my numbers could be off, they could be sub 10%, but that means there's 80% of people that are hiring, lawyers are out there. You don't need all of it, you just need a little bit of it and you'll do totally fine. You know, make an impact on a lot of people's lives and do, you know, and run a very successful business. But they got to know who you are. [00:21:55] Speaker B: Yeah. So. And the other thing I tell people too, like, oh, Morgan Morgan's coming into, they have a certain brand. Not everyone's want wants to engage with Morgan Morgan. Not everyone's gonna, it's not gonna appeal to them. Oh, they're huge. I'm not gonna probably have a lawyer that, you know, I'm gonna get to talk with. Obviously John Morgan's not gonna be talking to me. Some people just aren't going to relate with that brand. It might not even just, they might not connect with it for whatever reason. You can see five billboards and maybe that one just doesn't hit right. So you gotta think about your brand, your unique offering, who you are and you're gonna get certain clients that come to you, they're attracted to what you have and some might go to them, but just because they market and come and try to saturate the market, they're not gonna get all those clients. It's not gonna happen. [00:22:47] Speaker A: I'm sitting here, I'm drinking a Starbucks coffee or I think about it in terms of a burger, right? Not every, not everybody is going to want to eat that Five Guys burger or that Burger King burger. Some of them are only going to go to the boutique one off burger shop. And if that's who you are, that's your market. You're not advertising to the folks that want to go get a quick burger or a burger that tastes the same every time you want the one that's customized to your liking that you can Walk up and place your order the way you want it. Okay, so who cares that Morgan and Morgan came in or who cares that there's an 800 pound gorilla that's been in your market for a long time. They're not, they don't have enough market share that you should be worried they're going to put you out of business. [00:23:28] Speaker B: I mean, it's even better opportunity potentially because you're going to have the lawyers that pull back or they, they say, oh, I can't do it. Like, you can say, I'm going to be here to pick up everything. They don't get, like, how do I become the one that gets the 80% or the 20% or whatever it is. [00:23:48] Speaker A: Your slice or the disenchanted, right? The folks that have been there before, maybe it's not their first accident. They've been down the road with the big firm and they said, I didn't like that customer service, I want to do the opposite. You could be the opposite or somewhere in the middle where you say, oh, you weren't happy because you kept getting moved from lawyer to lawyer because there was attrition. You hire us, you hire my firm, you're hiring me or you're hiring me and my one guy, my two guys. Meaning I'm going to touch your case. You want to come meet with me, we'll schedule a call, we'll have a meeting. You're not going to be told you can never see me. That's crazy. [00:24:20] Speaker B: And the other thing too is this like for me, we just had an all hands meeting today with my team. So we have 50, we had 51 on the cost. We're over the 50 person mark. Bravo, appreciate it. It's just crazy to think. But so, but as you go. So say if you're new, you're just Lee. Lee's like, hey, you're talking to me. I'm gonna handle your case, I'm gonna sit down with you. But as you grow, you know, you need to lean into and leverage the growth to the advantage. Oh well, the guy down the street, he's just a solo guy. He's not gonna be maybe available. Like, you gotta play the part. And so hey, we're a little bit bigger, but we're still nimble. I'll still be to meet with you, but we have systems and processes and we'll give you updates and blah, blah, blah. And as you get a little bit bigger, you know, you just gotta lean into why, why we're better and what we've learned and We've grown. And the Morgan and Morgans, they use, we're the biggest in the country, which is a massive accomplishment. It's not going to resonate with everybody though. [00:25:25] Speaker A: I think one of the second to last point you just made I think is critical, right? You can teach people or explain to people, hey, I was there and I saw that, you know, even though I was saying it was the best way to be on my own, it wasn't the best way because I needed a little bit of an army. And then I built that army. And then I saw there was another way to make it better. Systems, processes, maybe it's an assembly line model, whatever it is, you can, if you can convey the message and resonate with people that you can deliver the service that they want or that they need and that the other way that others are doing it isn't the right way. I think that's how you get your wins. [00:26:02] Speaker B: Yeah, 100%. I think I've had some lawyers that I've talked to, they're like, well, I like to have, you know, real connection with my, my, my clients and if I grow, that's not what I want. And so they're just thinking small and they're thinking, you know, they're just trying to avoid the growth, right? Like you need to grow, you need to invest in systems and processes and make the experience for the client better. And that's just part of growing. And so you can look at the Morgan and Morgan and say, hey, they did all that very successfully. So much so that that's where they are now. But they now appeal to a different kind of clientele and they won't appeal to others. And so that they can lean into what makes them different, which is we're the biggest law firm in the country and some people might want to go that route. So today's episode is brought to you by Answering Legal now to switch my company Array Digital over to Answering Legal. And it's made my life a whole lot easier. If I can't get to the phone, their 247 virtual receptionist take the call and take them through a full intake process so we never miss new business again. Now Anchoring Legal has been at this for more than a decade and they specialize in answering phone calls for law firms like yours. They even have a brand new easy to use app and they integrate with all the top legal softwares and platforms. [00:27:36] Speaker A: So. [00:27:37] Speaker B: So from our listeners today, we actually have a special deal of a 400 minute free trial offer of Answering Legal services that you can try out by going to answeringlegal.com array. You can also call 631-437-4803 and use special code Daisy. That's my last name. D A I S E Y. So go check them out and let's get back to the show. [00:28:06] Speaker A: We were talking offline about what you can do to leverage technology and virtual staff and things like that. And so because you said you talk about scale and one of the things you start out small necessity is the mother of invention. So you figure out how do I operate bigger when maybe I don't have the financial bandwidth to do it. Obviously technology can be the first lever you pull. But as soon as I discovered, you know, offshore staffing and I'd heard about it, but, but onshore, right, I was, I was remember reading about firms, big white shoe firms out of New York that were sending all their back office work to their white shoe offices in Cleveland because the cost of living was less and so they could pay the back back of house team that was very important, very competent. Just didn't live in one of the most expensive metropolitan areas. Well, what we're talking about now is really not much different. You, I mean I have a team, we are now eight. I've got five virtual and I mean I don't care if you're virtual living down the road or virtual living, you know, down in another country. If you do great work and you're a team player and you're pleasant to be around and, and that, and my clients love you, that's all I need. I'm not, I don't care that people think about the virtual model as being something that they shouldn't touch. I think they're being foolish. And when I tell people what you can do and how many bodies you can add for the cost of maybe one domestic team member seems like a no brainer to me. [00:29:42] Speaker B: No, I totally agree. I know a lot of firms that have been successful with doing that. And again, the client, at the end of the day they are worried about where they are, their case, their finances, whatever. You're giving them the best experience possible, the information on time, moving their case on through and hopefully getting them the best result. It doesn't matter where the person is sitting that's doing the work. So Yeah, I think 100% leveraging virtual staffing. I know we use virtual staffing for like admin and each of my companies has a handful and they've been just amazing. They're part of our team. They were on our calls today. They're like full time. They're not just working through some video, like some portal. They're on our video calls every morning, interact with clients. They're doing real work and helping move things along and help the experience. So I think law firms should definitely, and I think not a lot of law firms are even considering this or even know much about it, to be honest with you, in the legal space. [00:30:50] Speaker A: What's crazy to me, Kevin, is that if, if you could tell your client, hey, I have more flexibility, we could, you know, if we get in a bind, I can cut my fees because I've kept my overhead skinny and that means I'm not worried about making payroll or because I've, I've done something to serve myself or because I'm not willing to be. To think outside of the box, that seems like a pretty good selling point. If a client gets, you know, severely injured and you find out it's a minimum policy, but you've got the flexibility to be generous and make, you know, make a mark on a person because you're not worried about paying some, you know, older secretary's bloated salary just because they've been doing it for so long. Like, I don't buy that. I had so many people that worked in my office that were getting overpaid. Now that I see what folks outside the country, they can do that job and they're making a fifth of what this senior paralegal or senior assistant was making. It's crazy. [00:31:46] Speaker B: Yeah. What, what company are using like a staffing company? [00:31:51] Speaker A: So I had, I had sourced some team members originally through legal Soft, but a lot my, my most recent hires, I actually now that I kind of understand what I need, I set up interviews through different, like upwork. I met some people. And you know, obviously the most important thing if you're hiring folks that are bilingual is that there's not going to be any issues with communication if you have folks locally that might not be able to understand. So that, that's very important to me. I have a lot of a bilingual client base. So it's very important that I have Spanish and English speaking team members. Look, we had somebody the other day, potential new client called, he messaged us, I responded to him. I said, someone on my team's gonna call you. That gentleman is bilingual and his English is perfect. His Spanish is perfect, his English is perfect. And when he called, this person talked to him for a few seconds and hung up. And I messaged the guy and said, hey, what, what's going on? I heard the call, got Disconnected. And he said, you know, I don't want to speak to somebody who English isn't their first language. And I told my team that guy can fuck right off. We ain't, we ain't gonna work for him either. Right. I don't, I don't appreciate that. I don't appreciate that because we got people in this community, you know, I'm in New Orleans, we got people who, English isn't their first language either. And they're as American as they come, but so their parents speak Spanish at home or they speak Russian or a dialect of Arabic, who cares, you know? Yeah, I didn't, I didn't like it at all. And I don't, but we don't need to. There's plenty of people that want our. [00:33:21] Speaker B: Help take on every client. And that's definitely in my case because I sign up long term relationships when I have clients. So. That's right, we gotta be a little picky. But yeah, I mean, with my staff at Array like we, we actually do a lot of, you know, Spanish translated content, SEO ranking, SEO for Spanish. And I've actually was just talking to someone that's like they have a Portuguese niche outside of the Boston area. So I have, think I have five staff internally that in the US that speak Spanish fluently. And then of course some of virtual assistants speak Spanish. [00:34:04] Speaker A: You know what I, what I've come to learn and I've, I've grown up a nice size Spanish speaking client base and I've got some folks that are in the, you know, Arabic community here. And oftentimes people go with the people that they know. Right. So maybe it's a Spanish speaking lawyer or an Arabic speaking lawyer. And then you come to find out that they don't get the sort of information that they should if they were speaking English and understood the documents that were coming through. And so I've gotten a lot of clients that come to me dissatisfied with their, the lawyer who's like them because they just felt like they got short shifted. And so, you know, I've got a team that can speak with folks where I can't sometimes. But, you know, you deserve to get the service that you should get if you were speaking English as your first language. And so, you know, just because a lawyer's speaking your language doesn't mean they're doing the right thing as a lawyer and that, that's gotta come first and foremost. [00:35:02] Speaker B: Yeah, I feel like, you know, speaking the language or having people available to speak the languages, it's an add on. But the, you need to run the law firm properly and do things right by the client and give them the information need. That's. That's way more important. I think if you can do all that and then you're able to serve them at their language, too, that's. That's the winning combination for sure. [00:35:24] Speaker A: And you think, right, you would think that somebody wouldn't, you know, sell you up the river, right, just because you don't understand. But I've had folks come to me and say, oh, I settled the case for $10,000 and I was told I'm getting two. I don't understand, how could that be? And I said, oh, your lawyer didn't explain where the money's going. They're like, no. They just gave me a check and said, sign the papers. No. No discussion on the front end. No discussion on the back end. And, you know, this. A lot of what we do, right, we're counselors, we're talking people off the ledge. We're giving them education so that they understand they're not always going to be happy, but they do need to understand, you know, what the process is like on the front end so that, you know, when you got to pay doctor's bills back and when you have to pay the lawyer back, they're not saying, this is the first time I ever heard that I have to pay anybody back out of this settlement sum. It can't be. When it's time to collect the check, they're going to be up the wall. [00:36:14] Speaker B: Yeah, for sure. [00:36:15] Speaker A: Crazy. [00:36:16] Speaker B: Not walking away very much in that case. So. [00:36:19] Speaker A: No. [00:36:20] Speaker B: Yeah, well, no, these. I mean, all huge things, but I would say, yeah, anyone that's especially newer. But if you're running a firm right now and you're always just looking for. Actually it was the guy next, next door to me, owns a law firm and his office assistant throwing like five different jobs, basically left after like 15 or 20 years. And he's like, I don't know what to do. He's like, how am I going to find someone? And you know, he's looking for someone local to fill that spot and do everything she was doing. And it's like, he's not going to find that, but. And so now he's doing it all by himself. He's solo again. [00:37:00] Speaker A: So he's going to turn gray or lose his hair very fast a lot. [00:37:05] Speaker B: It's just the old way of doing it. And I know a lot of lawyers like that are in that spot. And, you know, he could hire some virtual assistants, maybe Maybe bring someone back in the office. That's what he's used to get them to do basic stuff and then, you know, get some virtual staff to fill it and see if he goes on vacation or gets sick or he or whoever. Guess what? You're not down. Like he's doing filing and paperwork and everything now because he's back to where he was 25 years ago by himself. [00:37:32] Speaker A: Look, I said to somebody the other day, in the context of AI, you wouldn't give a first year associate or a secretary an assignment without any proper instructions and expect it to come back perfect. You shouldn't give it to AI that way either. So, you know, if you have a virtual team member and you want to give them something, try to explain it as best you can. We've got loom to do videos, you've got scribe to write SOPs like, you know, you can just record something as a voice recording. There's so many ways to convey the information and give them an opportunity to watch it again and read it again so it's not just one and done. So you can do that. And then you gotta give some time to teach. So go over the assignment with them. If it's not perfect, how else are they gonna learn, you know? And in the end, if they're just cogs in your wheel, you're gonna have folks that are gonna leave and be unhappy. You got to hopefully give them something that they can walk away with. Even if they do walk away and feel like I grew at that firm, I'm better because I was there, and hopefully they leave with a good taste in their mouth if they leave at all. [00:38:36] Speaker B: Yeah, and I talk about this all the time. Like if you're not building a firm or setting yourself up to give folks a path and a vision that they, they see themselves growing, why would they stay right? As the entrepreneurs, the, the, the folks at the front, it's our thing. We're excited about it. It's everything we think about all day, right? Our staff, not so much. Unless you create a place that they want to be at, that they want to see grow, that they can have people underneath them that they can see grow, you know, whatever their goals are. But if you're not growing it, you're staying stagnant. You're not, you're not always trying to figure out new ways to do things. You're going to lose people for sure. [00:39:23] Speaker A: Look, Kevin, it's, it's. I mean, I'll give you just a silly, simple example. I got my team, I got folks In Nicaragua. They're in El Salvador. I got. One of the new guys is in Colombia. They. They want to know, hey, when do we get. When do we get get rude shirts? So I shipped everybody shirts. These are the most expensive shirts I've ever mailed. Right. These $10T shirts are costing me hundreds of dollars. But if they're excited, they're part of the team, you would give it to them out of your. Your merch room. Why shouldn't you give it to them just because they're somewhere else? And frankly, I didn't. I was like, how many do you want? What do you want? And they were listed. I want every design. Okay. If you're excited to have them, they're yours. I do that with my, my local clients. I give out all my stuff for free. Because if you will wear my name and wear my firm because you think it's a cool shirt or you like the branding, I would love it. It's free advertising and I'm excited about it, like you said. I hope you're excited about it. [00:40:18] Speaker B: Absolutely. I'm gonna need a shirt, by the way. [00:40:22] Speaker A: You can have any shirt you want. These. These haven't even come out yet. We have a. So I told you I would tell you so. I sponsor the local. I sponsor the local pro wrestling promotion, Wildcat Sports. And about three, four months into the sponsorship, they look at me like, lee, would you like to be our on screen general manager? I was like, I thought you'd never ask. But I go to the. I go to all the events, I set up a table, I make different merch. I give it out, I meet a bunch of people. You know, it's passionate fans about something that they love that I grew up loving somebody, you know, a guy I actually, a vendor I didn't actually work with sent me that. And one day in the mail, I get this package. I'm like, I've never had one of these in my life, but this is pretty cool. I should show it in my office. But it's a fun way to meet people where they are, right? Something that they love. And my mentality is if they want to hire somebody that they know like and trust, they've met me, they know that I love the thing that they love. And so if that's going to be the selling point that seems to work. [00:41:22] Speaker B: That'S it right there. That's the connection, you know, and that's awesome. Yeah. I used to love wrestling back in the day. I had friends that were really into it, like, so much so that in their 40s today, they're still, like, you know, all into it. [00:41:35] Speaker A: So May 31, I said, I'm gonna bring these Rudamania shirts out at our next event. So any of those Wildcat sports fans watching this, watching the show, I'll be there. [00:41:45] Speaker B: Let's go. Let's go. Yeah, give me a shirt so I can. I can pimp it on the show and at conferences back the back says. [00:41:52] Speaker A: What are you gonna do or what you gonna do when we get rude with you? And it's got like a silhouette of Hogan with. But it's his rooting law on his bandana, so it's a cool shirt. [00:42:01] Speaker B: That's awesome, dude. [00:42:02] Speaker A: Yeah, you have to give me your size offline, and I'll drop it in the mail to you. [00:42:05] Speaker B: Absolutely. Well, I like your comment too, about, like, your virtual staff. We do the same thing. So we do. We do kudo, like, awards with our core values every day through Slack. So I could give you, like, you know, 10 points for passion. And I say, why? And it all calculates. But so each month we have a winner and they get a bonus, cash bonus. And then every quarter, we have a winner for each of our core values. And we get like, these. They're like three or $400, like, glass blown. Like, you know, they weigh like 20 pound. Trophies. And we'll send them to anybody no matter where they're at. So Colombia, or we got a employee that's really been with us for about. For four years now. He's in Ecuador, so he's gotten one shipped to him. It takes a while, but, yeah, we treat everyone the same. [00:43:00] Speaker A: I love when customs grabs my T shirts and is like, and you're gonna pay an $80 vig on top of the cost to ship the shirts. I'm like, guys, you know I love you. I must love you if I'm spending this much money on some crappy T shirts. [00:43:11] Speaker B: Yeah, it don't make sense sometimes, but. [00:43:13] Speaker A: Yeah, it is what it is. [00:43:15] Speaker B: Yeah, man. That's awesome, man. I love everything you're doing. Love the brand, love the tips. A lot of great stuff. If you're starting a firm or if you're new at a firm or maybe you're just, you know, you're in your first couple years and you're kind of, like, stuck, you know, and not sure what to do. I think a lot of great information here in this episode that Lee shared. Reach out to Lee, connect with him. I'm sure he would love to chat. If you're an owner. I can connect you. If you want to talk to me, have any questions, I'm happy to do that as well. So, Lee, what's the best way for folks to connect with you? [00:43:48] Speaker A: Anybody that wants to reach me, my website's easy. It's getrude.com. my email is leighetrude.com. you can call us at 833 GET RUDE, which is 833-43-87833. But seriously, people were so generous with their time and their information when I was coming out that I feel like it's the right thing to do to pay it forward. So anybody that wants information, they want to know how to hire virtual staff, what I'm doing in making merch and where I'm sourcing it from. I mean, I've. I've explored it all. AI tech. Any way I can help? Happy to do it. Just drop me a note, dude. [00:44:24] Speaker B: Well, I appreciate it and I think we connected through Margarita, I believe. [00:44:29] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:44:30] Speaker B: So, Margarita, if you're out there listening, actually connecting us, we were on your her mastermind call together, so. [00:44:35] Speaker A: That's right. [00:44:36] Speaker B: Yeah. Thanks for me and awesome, everyone. Thank you so much for tuning in. As always, hope you've learned a lot from Lee. Lee, you stay on with me for just a second while we get this uploaded and we'll see you all soon, everybody. [00:44:50] Speaker A: Thanks, Kevin.