Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign.
[00:00:18] Speaker B: Most firms survive. The best ones scale.
Welcome to the Managing Partners podcast, where law firm leaders learn to think bigger.
I'm Kevin. Daisy.
Let's jump in.
All right, we're recording.
Chad, I want you to tell us a little story, something that you could share with the audience today. In regards to our topic, we're going to be talking about public speaking for trial attorneys, specifically, maybe share a little story that, you know is an aha moment, something impactful that. That you'd like to share.
[00:00:53] Speaker A: There's a little kid. He's in a church filled with people. There's a contest where in a small town, everybody has to share what the legacy of Dr. King was or is. The church has about 3, 400 people in it, but it's a small country church, the kind of church where you can hear the doors just creak, Right? Smells like old Bibles in there, man.
And the person announces the contest winner, who's the kid? And the kid has to get up and speak, but the kid decides to do something different. That's go through the front door. Normally, you walk up to the podium and speak, right? And if you're, you know, Southern or Baptist or whatever, you know, that's kind of a sacred place, right? You're from Texas, so, you know.
But instead of walking up the normal way, the kid decides to go around the back of the church, wait for the person to announce, and then walk through the door.
All right. It's not an aha moment, but it's a lesson in communication that sometimes the entrance itself is more powerful than what's actually being said.
The audience's faces are fixed on the podium, on high, if you want to call it that. But the kid comes from among the people and begins to deliver his speech. That kid was me. And so that was one of the first lessons in the element of surprise that I think works for us as plaintiffs lawyers that I learned very, very, very early on. And it's effective, but it can't be so wild that it doesn't fit the norm or the expectation of the subject matter or the crowd.
[00:02:38] Speaker B: That's awesome, man. I love that story. Well, I'm actually so crushed. I'm actually from Virginia, Been to Texas a few times.
[00:02:46] Speaker A: Texas is our sister state in Georgia, so I just wanted to make you from Texas is your story.
[00:02:53] Speaker B: Anything could be possible. Right. So I'm from Virginia, but grew up in a Baptist church in a small, small, real small town.
So everything you were saying was pretty, pretty, pretty spot on there. So I appreciate you sharing that story. That's. That's quite amazing. Yeah, Chad's got some cool stories, everyone here. So as you're listening in, you want to take a moment to introduce Chad. Actually, you met Chad in Vegas at the Mass. Towards me. Perfect.
Walking through the halls. I was leaving the conference area, going back to eat lunch or something. I'm not sure. And, yeah, he stopped me and said, hey, you're Kevin with the managing partners podcast. And we sat there and talked for quite a little while, and of course, we reconnected and I said, I gotta get you on the show. And Chad's a super nice guy. He's talented, he's smart. He's got some cool stuff to share with us today here. But, Chad, welcome to the show.
[00:03:46] Speaker A: Glad to be here, man. You know, I'm a fan. I saw you prepare to shake hands and kiss babies and do the Howard Dean pia at the end of it.
[00:03:56] Speaker B: So.
[00:03:56] Speaker A: So we can. We connected, and I'm glad that I. That I bumped into you, and it's really an honor to be on your show.
[00:04:03] Speaker B: Yeah. So, yeah, happy to have you. You know, this is all about the guest, and it's just so fun to record these and learn and pick up new things. Like, you just give me a. Something I never thought about before. And, you know, I like trying to increase my speaking on stage opportunities. And so you always want to be on point. You want to show up, you want to practice, you want to, you know, you don't want to be nervous. And, you know, you're always kind of thinking through, like, what, what's this going to be like? And am I prepared for it?
So learning some of this stuff is very important and practicing and understanding. And again, me. Me and Chad talked the other day just to kind of prepare for a topic here. And, you know, he was throwing out all kinds of good stuff. I was like, man, I wish we just recorded that chat. Would have been great. So. But I want to hear your story first. You know, you're an attorney down in Georgia, and tell us how you became an attorney and your story there.
[00:05:00] Speaker A: Yeah, so at a very young age, my parents threw me out to the wolves and made me give speeches. So when most kids were playing basketball and I played basketball, football, sports, they made me learn speeches by heart, write speeches, go to the library and study figures like Dr. King and JFK and Malcolm X, Bill Clinton even at the time, and actually deliver speeches for practically every group you can think of.
Starting around the age of 10, I gave my first speech in front of 100 people or more. And so those speeches were just say no speeches. They were Lions Club speeches. They were MLK speeches. They were there. There was. There was something called.
It's a Christian club. I'm forgetting it now. I almost called it, but it's. I'm not sure if it's still in first priority. First priority. Speeches, rallies, they were every kind of speech you could think of, right? There was even a speech about the importance of Latin and Roman figures. But early, they made me get out and start doing this because they'd identified this skill. And so by the time I was 18, by my estimation, I'd given over a hundred speeches to crowds of a hundred people or more, which is a lot for a kid, you know, beginning with that number of folks at.
At age 10. So I learned this stuff by rapid fire.
I learned it through iteration. I learned it through seeing other people do it. I learned it through being evaluated. And after a while, you know, I looked up and I had been doing it for, you know, 15, 20 years because I started so young. I'm not an old guy yet.
So I said, hey, why don't we just talk to trial lawyers about. About this stuff, which is pretty important to what we do.
[00:07:03] Speaker B: It's. That's. I mean, just insane. I mean, my kids, my daughter's 11, my. My son's almost 14.
They would be petrified if they had to get up in front of two people. And at this point, my daughter actually got a student of the month for her elementary school the other day. And I went there and, you know, all the parents are there that their kids got it, and they got to go up on stage and they read off a thing about them.
And she was like, I never want to get that again. Like, I don't want to have to go up on stage to get my award. I was like, you're crazy.
But, yeah, I mean, most kids these days and think about you when you're 10, you know, I know for me in church, you know, you get up there and you have to learn Bible verses, and you got to get up there with four other kids and, yeah, 100 people in the church, you know, it's foreign to you. For.
[00:07:54] Speaker A: Sure it is. And the church, you know, from most a lot of folks down south is like the primary training ground for a lot of public speaking. In my dad's generation, they had something called btu, Bible training unit or something. And kids would get up and learn these verses and speeches, Easter speeches, Christmas speeches that died down, and it changed and took various forms. But now you know, we're not seeing as much of that, at least in the traditional religious form. And so we've got to be creative about training up trial lawyers and leaders to get on their feet and do this pretty early.
[00:08:29] Speaker B: Yeah. So just love to hear, you know, your perspective as we get, we get diving into it. But you know, obviously I was selling Chad this, like most people assume lawyers, all lawyers are up in front of a court all day talking to a bunch of people and the whole TV kind of scene style.
I know a lot of lawyers that are introverts that don't go to trial or court at all and that's just not what they do.
But for trial lawyers specifically, getting better at that and improving their craft and, and, or if they're coming straight out of school or maybe starting their own firm, interested to see that because, because Chad's really figured this stuff out and, and, and here to help guide you guys through that. So I think interested to learn, just learn more about some of the top, you know, the tactics and the tips and, and things like that and I'll just, you know, let you take the floor and kind of dive into it, to be honest with you.
[00:09:34] Speaker A: So yeah, so we, and by the way, we've prepared a handout if you want it. We can mail you a digital infographic with all that stuff.
[00:09:43] Speaker B: Just a few quick ask me, ask me for that. I'll get that from his team.
And so we'll try to get a copy or a link or something up if you need that, you know, you message me if this is on LinkedIn or YouTube or email me and I'll make sure you get a copy.
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[00:11:07] Speaker A: But one of the things that a lot of folks miss is, you know, public speaking happens all the time.
It happens when we talk to our spouses. It happens when we talk to our clients. It happens when we negotiate a traffic ticket with a cop or the lack thereof.
It happens when we go to the store and we have an audience that is a continual, revolving, changing space, right?
And we're always doing it.
It's just when the context changes that we get nervous, right? And we know inherently that we adapt what we say to who we say it to, right?
In part because the audience dictates the message and also the messenger sometimes, right? Our kids know this best.
You know, if we say, don't do this as dads, maybe our daughters or sons go over to mom and they say, hey, look, Daddy said this, right? Mom might be in the other room. But that's an example of a change of audience to deliver an effective outcome. So I don't want us to think about public speaking in this formalistic way. You're already doing it. And so the rule number one is you gotta know your audience.
You gotta know your audience, right? I mean, there's a fundamental difference to talking to a judge about emotion versus talking to a crowd of students about what the law is. One is the expectations are different.
The other is the language. And the common ground that you establish to build a connection is different. And the other is some people are turned off by different body language. Which brings me to my next point.
That is that body language is the chief form of communication, right?
You know, I'm sitting here talking to you about something innocuous, right? But if I start doing all this right, you know, people are like, man, this guy, he's. Why is he so zealous or angry or aggressive, right?
But if I just say something like this right now, I'm learning, although I'm not.
And so how we deliver the speech is embedded with meaning. And then third, we have to think very carefully about what we say first, what we say last, and what we sandwich in the middle.
That's primacy and recency. And plenty of trial lawyers know about that. And it is a real thing.
These are just three basic things that if you really practice at them, maybe weekly, monthly, I think you'll have much better outcomes as a trial lawyer.
[00:13:52] Speaker B: Excellent tips. And, you know, for me, I, you know, I get I public good on a stage. I was on a stage recently in Richmond in front of a bunch of law firm administrators and. But I usually have a pretty good gap between when I speak. I try to get more speaking gigs when I can, but it's usually a pretty long gap. So it's kind of like I gotta do this again. I haven't done this in a while. So, yeah, I think practicing and as a trial attorney, getting on stages and talking about different things and just frequently getting that practice and those repetitions in there definitely makes you better, less stressed about it or nervous about it. So I think, you know, I used to speak a lot more when like, I used to be more of like a local focus company.
Just get in front of groups and talk about stuff. So I just getting that experience or talking to other law firm owners. You know, a lot of these conferences are like, you know, masterworks made perfect. Having a speaking breakout session, you know, teaching other attorneys different things that you've learned. Just kind of getting that those repetitions in, I think can be really helpful too. So it's worked out for me anyway. And then I think I was telling you this, Chad. For me, I don't feel comfortable just like walking up without checking the room. And in my case, obviously I'm not in front of a judge or a jury.
So for me, it's usually a group of maybe lawyers or something like that. But I just, I ask a question, hey, who in the room is, you know, a business attorney versus, you know, you know, commercial side or plaintiff side?
That's going to change my marketing talk or whatever. It's going to be completely. Because I'm going to be alienating people if I don't really figure out who's in the room and what kind of message I need to deliver to them. So that's been helpful for me to just straight up and ask, give me a raise of hands, you know, and then it also kind of breaks the ice a little bit and kind of gets you feeling comfortable? In my mind, yeah, totally, 100%. Now, how would you say, you know, if you're, you know, in the courtroom, you know, you can't really do what I just. I did. But what's a good tip for. For those listening that just, you know, they're. They're trying to get better, Maybe they're new trial attorneys, maybe the new new business owners.
What's a good tip for them?
[00:16:13] Speaker A: Well, one thing is when you get in the courtroom, let's say it's wide deer, right.
The judge has to have folks walk in, sit in the front row, sit in the next row, sit in the next Row, sit in the next row. And as they walk in, let's say it's a single file line that they're in. You get a chance to scope them out, but they're scoping you out, too. And so you're communicating to them the same time they're communicating to you, basically doing the same thing, right? So there's. There's almost an equal exchange of information going on.
The only difference is they're more of their eyes on you than your eyes are on them. And they're forming bonds, and they're sitting beside folks that they may continue to talk to. And leadership and influence is formed as they walk in that room and are familiarizing themselves with the whole situation.
The number one thing I think a lawyer can do at that point is to pay attention and scope out the audience, right? Some people are going to have body language that is very reticent. Other folks will have visceral body language. Maybe they roll their eyes.
Other folks will just be stoic. Those are the hard ones. Other folks will be smiling, laughing, and giggling with someone. They're forming bonds, right?
But you got to read the audience so you can take in the information that they're giving you unconsciously, and then you proceed with your message, right? And so a lot of times, the plaintiffs will go first.
And in Wadir, for example, they're forming this opinion of, what lawyer do I trust? What lawyer do I like? Is the threshold question.
And then this next question is, do I like what he or she is saying?
And so when you get up, you got to start with an icebreaker, right?
You know, you hear the pie metaphor or analogy.
That's great. You know, my pie analogy is sweet potato pie. Yeah, sweet potato. Defense lawyers, you probably heard me use it, and y' all know if you try to case against me, it. It works, right?
And especially in rural towns, it works. Sweet potato pie versus apple pie, right? Who likes apple? Who likes sweet potato? Who knows? Sweet potato pie? Who's had it? What does it taste like to you? Right?
And jury selection is about taste, right? So then we have a common bond.
And from that common bond, you know, all right, this is a country dude. He's not some, you know, dude in suits, right?
I can talk to him. He's like the guy next door. He's got a little Southern drawl, too.
[00:19:07] Speaker B: So.
[00:19:08] Speaker A: All right, so when you deliver that icebreaker, the goal is to form a connection. In summary, though, you want to scope out that crowd. Take in information as they're taking information from you.
You want to make sure you break the ice.
And then in doing so, you want to form a human connection that makes you easier to talk to and more likely to be credible at the beginning.
[00:19:33] Speaker B: That's awesome.
Hopefully we will find that helpful, obviously. Hopefully. I'm never in that position in a court. I don't think I will be. But you can call me.
[00:19:43] Speaker A: You can call me.
[00:19:43] Speaker B: You'll be all right. I'm calling Chad if I need that.
[00:19:46] Speaker A: You'll be all right.
[00:19:48] Speaker B: So I would like to see, you know, you know, trial attorneys listening, but also like to apply this to. Okay, how do we flip that to I'm just on stage to give a presentation.
Yeah. And, you know, my version is I literally ask the crowd who they are. But is there a way to. Maybe, maybe you don't get that opportunity. Maybe you're just delivering a speech that you don't interact with the crowd. Maybe that's by design of the event that you're at. So what's the best way? I mean, to apply that to maybe something more like a speech that you're given and you walk on stage and you just, boom, you're out there in front of a bunch of people.
What kind of tip, maybe could you give us on that?
[00:20:29] Speaker A: So you brought up a really good strategy earlier.
The question. The question can be a rhetorical question where you already know or suggest the answer, or it can be a question that is so open ended and universal that people have to necessarily talk about it. Right. Of course, the answer would serve as kind of a main idea or a backdrop to what you're going into. Right.
You don't want to say who likes elephants in a speech about tigers. Right. So you got to know what question to ask is the point behind that. But if you're not using the question strategy, then you can use the quote strategy.
Right. If you're not using the quote strategy, you can say something that is an unexpected statement.
For example, if you're trying a case, it's a stop sign case.
The theme might be stop, look and listen. They're not expecting you to say that. They're expecting you to say, how you doing, members of the jury, thank you for being here.
But when you say stop looking, listen, it's. It's kind of startling. Right.
And some lawyers believe in saying that theme first.
So you can open up a number of ways. You can use a parable. If you're a religious person, the religious figures, whether it's, you know, you know, Muhammad or Jesus Christ or Buddha or whomever they were, you know, Exxon experts at parables. Right, Parables.
They. They command the attention through stories, and they're short enough that you just deliver a point.
[00:22:09] Speaker B: Right.
[00:22:10] Speaker A: And so they remember the details of the story and the point at the end, and then you get into your substantive matter.
[00:22:16] Speaker B: Right.
[00:22:17] Speaker A: So you got a lot of devices at your. In your toolkit and at your. Ready to use. You got to practice them so that it comes off natural, though, Right. If you get up there and you're robotic when you deliver your speech and it's not natural, and you're. All your body language is rehearsed, you know, like you're posing for a camera.
Not gonna. Not gonna be delivered. Right.
[00:22:41] Speaker B: I love the thought of starting with the story. That's really cool. Like, just coming right out and just start telling a story.
[00:22:47] Speaker A: Yeah, you. You had me do it, dude.
[00:22:49] Speaker B: Yeah, I do.
[00:22:50] Speaker A: Hey, start with a story. Right.
[00:22:52] Speaker B: You did exactly that to the church. And I was like.
I was like, literally listening and trying to picture everything you were saying.
Yeah.
And that. That's what you can do. You come on stage and people, you know, being descriptive, like, where you can smell and feel and everything, you know, I think that's an excellent way to come out to. It seems like, what is this guy gonna be talking about? But they're. They're all ears, I bet.
[00:23:17] Speaker A: Right, Right.
[00:23:18] Speaker B: Yeah. Because they want to know what. What the. What's the. What's the punchline here? Now that you have their attention?
[00:23:23] Speaker A: Yeah. Now this stuff, you know, it came from years and years of doing it. Right.
And my mom was serious about this. Like, no, you're not going outside until. Say it again. You know, I can still hear her head or her voice and her angry. See her angry head bobbing up and down, telling me, you know, you got. But I'm thankful to her, and I owe a dad of gratitude. My dad was back. He was a good cop. You know, he was evaluating, too. So it was a joint effort.
And you got to get out there and practice. You got to have a crowd. It could be your dog. Your dog's not going to evaluate you. Right. Your wife will or your husband will. It could be your kids, if your kids are old enough to, you know, give you constructive feedback. But you got to get in front of somebody, and you got to get in forums and you got to do it often, and you're going to get better and better and better and better and better.
[00:24:16] Speaker B: I mean, I think about it. I think you're.
You'd said it. Forgot how you put it. But if I was.
I mean, you're just talking right now. If I were to say, hey, now, Chad, you're talking to me as if you're giving your speech, like you can get nervous with just one person to talk to, or it just changes the, the whole dynamic. Right? You know, like, yeah, I gotta. So if your kids, your wife, whoever, like, it'll give you the, you know, in my opinion, the feeling of really talking in front of people, because it's just that switch has been turned. All right, I'm gonna sit here and listen to you. Give me your speech. It's just like role playing for sales or anything like that. It's like you immediately speak about anything.
[00:24:57] Speaker A: Kevin, you really can.
[00:24:59] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:25:00] Speaker A: And if you do this enough, you could tell me, chad, give me a speech on, pick a subject. I give you a speech. You can try, you can try it. I can do it now. But that's how comfortable folks will get.
But you gotta get your reps in and you build your muscle and you gotta prepare. There's no excuse, there's no skill level that doesn't require preparation, but you get to a level where you can adjust relatively more rapidly in the moment.
[00:25:29] Speaker B: I just think, you know, having this capability, this, you know, this training or whatever is so valuable. I mean, to anyone listening. If you're a business owner, if you're not a business owner, it doesn't matter, but, but it's just having the ability to deliver and to get in front of folks and to give your message or tell your story, whatever it may be, or if you have a large team, employees, whatever, just, it's so powerful. And I was telling Chad this, I can't remember the name of the book, but it was a book where there's an exercise in the book.
And it, you know, it's basically just taking your. Taking a whole week, figuring out all the things you did in a week and then categorizing them, you know, with $10 an hour work, you know, work, you would pay someone $10 an hour for $100 an hour work.
You know, probably the bulk of your work that you might be doing, hopefully.
And then thousand dollars an hour work, and then $10,000 an hour work. So it's like the point was get rid of all the $10 an hour stuff, limit the $100 an hour stuff if possible. And how much thousand dollars work can you do per day? Once, one time a day, one hour a day. Can you do some thousand dollar work and like figuring out what that is? Right. That could be doing a Podcast. Right. Just like this. But what I put in the $10,000 category was only one thing, really, and that was being on a stage, public speaking.
There's nothing really that beats that. If you can get on stage in front of a bunch of people, it's, you know, it's probably the best thing you can do for yourself, for your business, for your confidence. There's so many good things that can come out of it, so. Connections, people in the room. So I, I just think it's, you know, it's still the.
The most important thing you can do and to get good at this and to. To learn it and to listen to people like Chad and how he's figured it out, I think super important. So, yeah, if you're an introvert, I know introverts that, that have flipped and they. They can do their thing and they can get on stage and talk to people. They'll still say they're an introvert. And it's not.
It's not natural for them. But I've seen them. I've seen them do it and get good at it.
[00:27:37] Speaker A: So anybody can. It's not this mystic, magical exercise.
We do it all day, every day. We just have to take away the mysticism around it and do it more often. We find ourselves doing it better and better and better because our confidence and skill level both rise at the same time.
[00:27:58] Speaker B: Yeah.
Yeah. Maybe, you know, you think you're an introvert. Maybe it's just because you've never had the practice, you've never been exposed to it, you've never gotten better at it. And you'd be maybe surprised if, you know, you might enjoy talking to people more and get in front of people more if you, if you do it more often.
[00:28:16] Speaker A: You might. You might.
Yeah.
[00:28:19] Speaker B: Chad might not have been born that way, but his parents said, this is what you're going to do.
[00:28:24] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:28:24] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:28:25] Speaker A: So 100%, man.
[00:28:27] Speaker B: If they didn't do that, we might not be talking to Chad right now, so maybe not.
I can hear your mom talking right now.
[00:28:36] Speaker A: Yeah, I don't think she was talking. She's more like.
She wasn't quite screaming, but it was an octave or two, you know, beneath that. But those, those, those hard, firm mandates really help me every day today.
That's huge.
[00:28:54] Speaker B: Yeah. Well, that's a good lesson for anyone that's got kids.
Start them early, you know.
[00:29:00] Speaker A: Yeah, it was my dad's idea, but my mom was the person who executed it.
[00:29:06] Speaker B: She's the executioner.
[00:29:08] Speaker A: She was the executioner.
[00:29:09] Speaker B: That's pretty Cool. Yeah, I'm thinking about my kids right now. I'm like, they, they don't do well with getting in front of a bunch of people.
So.
Yeah, may have to throw them to the wolves.
[00:29:18] Speaker A: Yeah, do it. You'll be happy with the result.
[00:29:22] Speaker B: Yeah, a hundred percent, man. One hundred percent. I love it. Well, Chad, what's the best way for folks to learn more about you?
And obviously you're super passionate about public speaking and helping trial lawyers. And, you know, you're going around to the conferences, obviously, you know, if you get to bump into him and see him in person. But what's the best way for folks to.
To contact you, connect with you? Is there a particular way that you prefer?
[00:29:45] Speaker A: Yeah, well, you know, there's. You can always reach out to infoance-law.com.
you know, I speak at a lot of these events, so Trial Lawyers Summit, when invited mtmp, you know, when invited tbi, Med Legal, these are just a few.
So we'll probably connect there. And if I'm not speaking like you and I bumped into each other, we'll just probably see each other.
So definitely reach out. And I'd love to hear and learn from everybody that I connect with.
Don't think that I'm the expert. You know, you might have something to share with me. Right. And then of course you can reach out. Our information is behind me on our website. You can dial our firm number, all that. If you want to learn about me, that's on the website about me.
And so it's really. I'm just a normal lawyer like you, if you're a lawyer, a normal business person like you, if you own a business, don't, don't think of me in this high and mighty way.
And I'm here to help lawyers.
I'm here to help disseminate information and to help promote the profession. That's an important thing to me.
And so the more of us win and do things the right way, I think the better off we'll be because there are a lot of forces that, you know, only believe that money, power and influence are the controlling factors. And those. Those forces are growing and we gotta have good lawyers doing great things with the right focus and value system, winning. And that's why I'm here.
[00:31:26] Speaker B: I love it. It's so many good lawyers out there and I'm just excited to have so many of them on the show here and learning from them and clients of mine and friends of mine. So I'm happy to add Chad to the list of those folks and out there doing good stuff for people that, that need help that are in a bad situation. So, Chad, I appreciate you, what you're doing and in the community and I look forward to seeing you again soon. And everyone, please connect with Chad. He's an open book. If you need to connect with him directly for some reason, don't know how, reach me out to me and I'll, I'll do that. And then he did have a, I guess more like a downloadable if, if you need a copy, want that, we'll share that out and get that in front of you.
[00:32:07] Speaker A: So thank you, Kevin. Thank you for what you're doing, your podcast. I'm a fan, of course.
I think you're putting out great information across spectrums. I think you're making an immediate impact in a scalable way and I think that you're setting a trend. Right. And there are a lot of folks that are going to try to replicate what you're doing and that shows that you're a real leader. Right? I mean when you have folks that want to follow and do what you've done, you are leading the way to something impactful. And so I want to thank you for putting your message out publicly and putting yourself out there publicly and putting Array digital out there publicly and making an impact because in all 50 states and then some, you got lawyers watching you, I'm sure.
And so keep doing the good work, man. I'm, I'm rooting for you. I'm rooting for you.
[00:33:05] Speaker B: I really appreciate that.
You know, it's been quite a journey and you know, a lot of fun and you know, as a non lawyer, you know, in the space, you know, I just, I soak up a lot and learn how to better run my business and you know, take care of my team and employees and, and the more we can learn about what you all do and how you do it and just helps me along the way. So it's, I get, I get a lot from this other than just people knowing who I am and stuff like so we, yeah, try to share real stuff and bring on folks like you to, to cover topics that, you know, we just don't know much about and, and hopefully it helps the lawyer out there. So I, I appreciate that not stopping and we're going to just take it to the next level. So I'm excited to, for some new things actually we have the Mastermind managing partners. Mastermind will be starting here soon.
Kind of a play off the podcast and got some awesome lawyers already signed up and excited to roll that out, so I'll be talking about that more soon. But, Chad, thank you so much, man. I really appreciate it. And everyone, please connect with him and appreciate the kind words.
Everyone. Thank you so much for tuning in.
[00:34:09] Speaker A: Thank you.
[00:34:09] Speaker B: Thank you for tuning in from all over the place and continue to watch the show and just appreciate all of you. We'll see you soon. See you on the next episode.
