Why is trust crucial in the lead conversion process?

[00:00:00] Speaker A: You probably know this. It is in our culture. It is sacrilegious to throw a book away. [00:00:05] Speaker B: You don't throw a book away. [00:00:06] Speaker A: You don't. [00:00:07] Speaker B: Hey there, everyone. Welcome to another episode of the Managed Partners podcast. I'm Kevin Deasy and I'm your host. Before we kick off and introduce our guest today, I wanted to mention our new partnership and sponsorship with Answering Legal. If you're not familiar with Answering Legal, they answer our phones, but they specialize in answering phones for law firms. So, yeah, check them out. Good people. But my guest today, which I actually saw yesterday, which probably doesn't align with this recording time, but I was just on Michael's podcast and we had a good time talking yesterday. So. Michael Delon, what's, what's up? And welcome to the show. [00:00:48] Speaker A: Hey, Kevin, thanks for having me. It's a great day. I'm just outside of Lexington, Kentucky and woke up this morning with the pitter patter of rain. And that's. It was just a great fall morning with rain and cool weather and I'm super excited for the day. So thanks for having me here. It's going to be a great chat. [00:01:05] Speaker B: Excellent. I love the positivity. We haven't had rain in a few weeks, I think here I'm in Virginia, but yeah, it's been. [00:01:13] Speaker A: Oh, yeah, I kind of. [00:01:14] Speaker B: I liked it for a little bit because it rained so much. My backyard was crazy. But now it's. Now we could use a little bit. So. [00:01:21] Speaker A: Yeah, a fire hazard if you don't get something on it pretty soon. [00:01:26] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. Well, real quick. I met Michael at GLM Summit, which is great legal marketing summit put on by Ben and Brian Glass and their team. Great event, great people. Met Michael, we sat there and chatted and learned more about what he does. And it's something that I honestly want to. To do. And I've had plenty of business owners I know have been successful writing their own books and having their book to be, you know, the expert on whatever they are. And a book just puts you on a different level. But people are like, well, how do I get started with that? How do I do that? That sounds like a lot of work. It could cost a lot of money. So Michael's on here today to talk about what he does and he helps experts like us or leaders get a book out there. And so I want him to tell us about that here in a minute. But I also wanted to have him tell his background and his story first. So. But really, if you're listening right now, it's Paperback expert, in case you're listening. You want to look him up before we even get started? Michael, tell us your background. [00:02:33] Speaker A: Awesome, Kevin. Thanks. It'll take about three and a half minutes. So here. Here we go. [00:02:38] Speaker B: First of all, let me throw a timer here. [00:02:39] Speaker A: There you go. Yeah, time me because I. Because this would be good. So I'm a. I'm a follower of Jesus Christ. Been married since 1990 to my wife Jill. First five years of our marriage, Kevin, were like this. So my wife and I are complete opposites. And even though she and I both grew up in church, nobody ever taught us how to be married. And so after five years of conflict, we went to a. A Weekend to Remember Marriage conference put on by a ministry called Family Life and sat in a ballroom for a weekend as they shared God's blueprints for marriage. I didn't know he had any blueprints. So we grabbed the blueprints, we started applying them, our marriage started getting better. And this is in the 90s, okay? We had two boys during that time period. But I was in Christian radio at that time, selling radio ads to attorneys and business owners, right? Found out really quickly, nobody wants to buy radio. They want to sell their products and services. So I had to make a decision to become either really, really good at selling or really good at marketing. So I chose marketing. And so I bought the books, I went to the seminars, I followed the gurus. I learned how to do marketing for small business owners. And I applied that in my radio job for the 90s. And my career grew. I helped business owners grow. At the end of the 90s, God led us out of that Christian radio station to a startup. Com. Some friends of mine started this company to change the Internet. And that's back when Amazon was just getting started. You remember, like, William Shatner on the radio talking about the world's largest bookstore. That's when I was selling websites and things to local business owners. And that company lasted two years because they were way ahead of their time, Kevin. That means they went bankrupt. And so I was. I was standing in my living room one day looking at the ceiling, going, all right, God, what am I supposed to do now? And he said, he spoke to my heart. He's like, michael, I want you to ministry to marriages, and I want you at Family Life. That ministry, that changed our marriage. And I said, wow, that'd be amazing. So we raised support as for ourselves for two years and moved from Indiana down to Little Rock, Arkansas, which is where that ministry was headquartered. Got into the Radio department of that ministry and served there for, for a few years. And I thought, man, I hit nirvana. Why would I ever do anything else but help build godly marriages? So I climbed the corporate ladder. I was on the leadership team. They had about 300 people on staff. I was on one of the leaders. And then they started going through corporate reorganizations. Third reorganizational chart got rolled out and my name was no longer on the leadership team. [00:04:59] Speaker B: Oh, wow. [00:05:00] Speaker A: And so they started shuffling me around the ministry to do different jobs. Right? I, that, that began a two year, what I call a prison term for Michael. I was stuck in a job that I hated at a ministry I love. So it was sucking me dry and I was just dying on the vine. And so I talked to my wife, I prayed to God, I said, lord, I gotta get out of this place. And he said, what do you want to do? I said, well, I want to go help business owners with marketing because they hate it and I love it. And God said, go. So on January 1st of 2013, I escaped from prison. I left the ministry, started a marketing consulting firm. I had one client. I'd come out to you, Kevin, say, hey, I can help you grow your business. We have a great chat. You'd say, michael, this all sounds good. Tell me, who else have you helped? What have you been doing the last few years? I said, well, I've been helping build marriages and families at family life. And you say, michael, that's so honorable. Way to go. Look, look, look at the time. I've got another meeting coming in, Michael, can we reschedule? So I was getting the door on my behind a lot. Nobody was hiring me because I had, they had no confidence in me, Kevin. They saw me as a ministry guy, not a marketing guy. So I knew I had to fix that. So I went to my church one day, second floor. I was pacing the hallways, back and forth, crying out to guys, going, God, how do I help Kevin? Because I know I can't. And God gave me the idea, Kevin, to take all of my ideas around marketing and business growth and put them in a book. So I wrote my first book, it's called on marketing, back in 2013. Then I would set an appointment with you. I'd mail a copy of my book to you before a meeting. I'd walk into your office a week later and there it was. My book was on your desk, dog eared, highlighted, underlined. You'd read my book. And in that meeting, Kevin, you'd pull out my book. You'd say, now, Michael, read Your book. In your book, you said. And you'd quote something I said, and you say, how do you help me do that? And you'd hire me, and the next guy would. And I started gaining clients. Kevin. I went, this is really cool. Why don't business owners do this? Well, I don't know if you know it, but writing a book is a challenge, man. There's a ton of things you gotta do. So I went back to church, I garnered a Sunday school room, and I listed out all the steps it took me to write my book. And I created a system that eliminates all of those barriers for business owners and attorneys and created what's called today Paperback Expert, where we help experts, attorneys, create a book without writing a word. And then I teach them how to use their book in their marketing to gain clients, get referrals, and grow revenue. How's the time? Three and a half minutes. [00:07:28] Speaker B: Right on it. [00:07:29] Speaker A: All right. I love it. I love it. That's how. I mean, that's my story. That's how I got here. [00:07:33] Speaker B: That's awesome. I love that. Great story. And so. All right, so you. Yeah, so you wrote your own book that helped yourself. And then you go, oh, this. This is something. [00:07:46] Speaker A: It's something because I was finding myself. So I've got a media background, right. I was in radio. I helped clients, you know, purchase cable and billboards and all that. So I get. I was competing against all the radio stations, all the cable stations, all the. All the ad agents, and I was just another one. Right. But when I. When you got a copy of my book, I got the VIP pass to the front of the line. I was an expert in marketing because I'd written a book. Look, that changed everything for me, and it changes everything for my clients as well. So that. Yeah, that's why I do what I do. I'm super passionate about it because I've lived it. [00:08:21] Speaker B: I love it. And it's kind of interesting, too, you know, with everything digital, right? [00:08:25] Speaker A: We do. [00:08:26] Speaker B: I do digital marketing and websites and all that stuff, but I use. Well, I got a. Stacks of them right here. Handwritten cards, you know, that I send out. [00:08:34] Speaker A: Yes, right. Thank you. [00:08:37] Speaker B: Printed newsletters, Right. Ben and Brian Glass preach that physical. Not just email, but those things that are tangible that sets you apart. And books are still you. Like if you wrote a book and you have physical. Like, I like to read a physical book or listen, but, you know, I got books stacked everywhere and on every room in my office here. But, yeah, it's still. That's still true. Like, it's, you know, you're not reading a book on your smartwatch or doing something like that. Like, it's, you still like to have books and pick them up. So it's. And even if you don't get the physical copy, you're like, I wrote the book on this. [00:09:12] Speaker A: That's right. [00:09:13] Speaker B: I can get you a copy on Audible or, you know, but whatever. [00:09:17] Speaker A: Think about what you guys do with digital marketing. Connecting a book. I wrote the book on divorce. I'm a divorce attorney. I wrote the book on, on. On the best ways to navigate a divorce in Florida. And go to my website, get a free copy of my book, download the PDF, and then what we tell our client. What we tell our clients is on the thank you page. You have a video there saying, hey, thanks so much for downloading our book. Full of great information and counsel to guide you through this process. And we would love to give you a free copy. If you want us to mail a copy to you, just let us know. We'll put in the month. Doesn't cost you a penny. We want you to have the resources that you need. Right. What you're, what you're doing, there is a getting people on your list. You're using offline media, a book with online media, and you're building a relationship of rust with that prospect. [00:10:07] Speaker B: Yes. I love that idea. Because think about, you know, I'm talking to my attorneys and I, I know for different practices what your cost per lead is. Right? [00:10:16] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:10:17] Speaker B: So think about just the cost of shipping a book. It's really low compared to what you might pay for a click on even PPC just to get them there. But ship them the book, have them set up in your office, have them go out, they get that book. They're now way more connected to your firm, even if they don't read it, the fact that you sent them a free book. And then Michael does a great job of this if you sign up to be on his podcast. So let's say, you know, he's got a video right after of Michael talking to me and saying, hey, here's what to expect. And he sends out more emails and has videos with everything. So you get to see and hear him and build a relationship before you even meet him. And I assume you do very similar things for your, your lead and sales process. [00:11:03] Speaker A: Absolutely, for my sales process. And it's also part of what we deliver to our clients as well. So when somebody comes to me for a book. Yeah, I can get you a book. It the Book's core. But it's your message, it's your marketing. It's. How are you showing up and building credibility around your message? Because your book is really just the. The holder of your message, the brand identity of who you are. All of that plays into how are you showing up through the whole process. And are you. Are you removing anxiety of meeting with a lawyer? [00:11:38] Speaker B: There's terrible lawyers out there. Yeah, I mean, I was just talking about this literally the last couple days with different folks. And most people haven't hired a lawyer before, right? [00:11:48] Speaker A: That's right. [00:11:48] Speaker B: They don't know. They don't know. They. They are a little bit worried to actually reach out and call, go, does my bill start right away? You know, do I gotta charge these fees? Like, what if, you know, they can take advantage of me? Like, you just gotta build that trust and likability as fast as you possibly can. [00:12:06] Speaker A: Yes. And think about the. I mean, we all make decisions emotionally, Right? Think about just the emotional angst of somebody who's never hired a lawyer, who now finds himself in a situation where they need to hire a lawyer, whatever the situation. They're already emotionally a mess and they're. And now they have to talk to somebody who's an attorney. Oh, and the videos, the books, all of that helps. Just chill out. I'm just an ordinary person. I'm expert at what I do, and I want to help guide you through a process. We're going to have a great conversation. You do that. And when they show up on the call, man, it's not, are you the right attorney? It's like, will you take my case? Can I work with you? Because everybody else that I talk to stinks. [00:12:48] Speaker B: Sorry. Yeah. And all these things play a part, you know, and just you said the book, like a book's just the, the, the piece, the holder. Right. It's same with your website. Like, the website is whatever. Like, it's there to represent you and your brand and build that connection and trust. That's what it's there for. And, and so if it doesn't do that, then it's. It's not performing the way it should. So a book is the ultimate lead magnet in my mind. [00:13:13] Speaker A: Absolutely. [00:13:14] Speaker B: You can collect their information. In exchange, you're shipping and paying for that cost. Um, and they, you know. Well, you mentioned divorce. Divorce could be a long cycle. [00:13:25] Speaker A: Sure. [00:13:25] Speaker B: You know what I mean? Like, you went to counseling. You do all these things. Like, it might take years or six months or whatever. So it's. They're looking for answers and they're looking for help and they're looking for guidance. Estate planning, another good one. But regardless, even personal injury, totally personal. [00:13:43] Speaker A: Injury is big time. [00:13:44] Speaker B: Yeah, like the cases aren't settled right away. It's a long, can be a long road. So a book that could, hey, here's what to expect, here's how to do this and that. [00:13:52] Speaker A: Well, and the other thing, Kevin, just even having a book on your website, let's just stop for a personal injury or a state plan. Doesn't matter. If you look at six of your competitors from the perspective of a prospect, they're researching you, they're looking at Google reviews, they're looking at your website. I just almost lay money down, Kevin. The others look just like your website. Yeah, pretty much. If you do one or two things different, if you had a video, if you had a free copy of a book or some, it just set you apart just enough to go, oh, I'll take that little step before I talk to you. I'm not ready to talk to you yet, but I'll take that little step and get that's exactly what we need to do in helping people take one step at a time. It's just a one more way to differentiate yourself and say yeah. Without putting the whole spotlight on you saying, I'm the expert. You go, I wrote a book on it that's going to be very helpful to you. It's all about the prospect. But in their mind, you're the expert. [00:14:55] Speaker C: Today's episode is brought to you by Answering Legal. [00:14:59] Speaker B: Now. [00:15:00] Speaker C: I just switched my company Array digital over to Answering Legal and it's made my life a whole lot easier. If I can't get to the phone, there are 24, seven virtual receptionists. Take the call and take them through a full intake process so we never miss new business again. Now Answering Legal has been at this for more than a decade and they specialize in answering phone calls for law firms like yours. They even have a brand new easy to use app and they integrate with all the top legal softwares and platforms. So from our listeners today, we actually have a special deal of a 400 minute free trial offer of Answering Legal services that you can try out by going to anti answeringlegal.com array. You can also call 631-437-4803 and use special code Daisy. That's my last name. D A I S E Y. So go check them out and let's get back to the show. [00:16:14] Speaker B: Yeah. No, I love it. So for those listening and myself, I'm Learning too tell I want to learn. We'll do an order, a little bit about the process, and then share anything. Of course, if you're. If you're able or willing to. On cost and things like that. What can people say? People listening could be like, all right, how can I get a book right now? What's the process? How long does it take? All those good things. So tell us a little bit more about, you know, if I was gonna lay, like, hey, Michael, I want a book right now. I have 350 episodes of podcasts and content. Like, what do I have to do? Do I have to write all this stuff? What. What's the process like? [00:16:53] Speaker A: No, not with us. You don't write a word with us. So I've got a staff of professional expert writers. Okay, first. First 30 days, I'm working with you to get the. The right title, theme, and message for your book. [00:17:06] Speaker B: Nice. [00:17:06] Speaker A: And we write that. We do. We create all of that with and for you. Okay, once we get that, I bring a writer to the table, and you're gonna start meeting with your writer for about an hour a week, and we're gonna build the entire outline of your book, start to finish, chapter by chapter, bullet points, stories you want to share, message, all of that. Once we get the outline done, which is about two or three weeks, then we go into our Speak to write process, where our writer guides you through that process, using that interview and saying, okay, Kevin, let's talk about number one. What. What is one of the. One of the five biggest failures of attorneys on their websites? And we shut up and you just start talking because you're an expert at this and you can. And we record all of you, all of your voice, because then we're going to take that entire book that you've just now spoken, and we're going to. We're going to translate it, and we're going to write your book in your words, with your tone. But we. We're doing all the work. Then we simply send you a couple of chapters and say, hey, Kevin, read these two chapters. Tell us, have we captured your tone, your voice, your message? If the rest of your book's written like this, are you. Are you happy? And as soon as you can say, you got it, then we just start one chapter at a time and sending them to you for. You read it, you review it, you send back changes to your writer. They make all the changes. You approve it. We do copy editing, and all of that. I've got. I've got everybody else out. We do Design work for the exterior of the book, the COVID So it's a stunning cover. And we take those cover design elements, weave them through the interior of the book as well, so it looks and feels like a professionally published book because that adds credibility. Then when it's all said and done, we publish it at Amazon and Kindle and PDF for your website and things and a paperback. And then we run a promotion to make you an Amazon bestselling author. So we take care of all of this. Why do we do that? We do it for credibility. Because in the eyes of your audience, when they hear, hey, today we're meeting with or talking with Amazon best selling author Kevin Daisy. [00:19:02] Speaker B: Kevin's the author of I like that's gonna ring. [00:19:05] Speaker A: Everybody loves that, right? And your audience is gonna go, hmm, tell me more. He's a bestselling author, obviously lots of people have read him, right? It's a credibility move. So that's why we position you there. And now that you have that, if you don't have a podcast, we actually create a podcast for you around the theme of your book. We interview you on every chapter. We post that on all the social platforms and podcasting platforms because that's another credibility platform, right? And another way for people to get to know you. Then we teach you how to use your podcast to generate revenue for your law firm. And then I meet with you about marketing. I say, okay, Kevin, what are you trying to do in your law firm outlet? What are you doing marketing wise and where you're going? And once I understand that, I go out and I've created about 15, I call them credibility playbooks. Step by step guided implementation that I give you about. Here's how you get more referral partners using your book. Here's how you get referrals from your happy clients using your book. Here's how you should put your book on your website and what the orientation. So we give them these systems and strategies that I know work. And because I know it worked because I've been doing this for over a decade, I back up our program with a two year double your money back guarantee. If you do what I tell you to do, there's no way you're not gaining clients and doubling your revenue. And now you've got a system that's going to help you year after year after year after year after year. And there's, there's probably about six other things that we do in that process. I'm not going to talk about that whole, that whole process, start to finish, is 30 grand. And if you pay it up front, you get a discount. If you pay it over 12 months, that's great. We really don't care. Okay. What we care about is making sure that we position you in the mind of your audience as the expert, the person they're going to come to. That's what we do. [00:21:00] Speaker B: So, I mean, that's a pretty crazy offer, people. He didn't pay to be on the show, but I literally just met him and trying to learn from him. But, I mean, you really take it, like, all the way through. I think. I think the big failure that I see is people get a book and then they have the book, they don't. [00:21:19] Speaker A: Know what to do. [00:21:19] Speaker B: And then they got lots of books in their conference room, you know. [00:21:24] Speaker A: Exactly. [00:21:25] Speaker B: But how do you use the book? How do you utilize the book all the way through? But you're taking it freaking way past that. [00:21:33] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:21:34] Speaker B: Because even if they're like, my business partner, he wrote his own book, but it's been a few years, and yeah, he's got a bunch of copies, and every once in a while he might mention it, but definitely not being utilized or focused on at all, to be honest with you. [00:21:47] Speaker A: Yeah, well. And that's so true for so many. Right. And I've got a. I run a coaching program for my clients that we allow authors like your partner who say, I've got a book, I just don't really know what to do with it. We weave them in because I've got. I know what to do with your book. [00:22:02] Speaker B: We don't need to write a new book. We got the book. [00:22:04] Speaker A: Honestly, most of the time you don't, but it's. It's. How do you leverage this asset? And you said something earlier that I really, really love, Kevin, is you said, I've got all these books around my. My place. Right. And a book. You probably know this. It is. In our culture, it is sacrilegious to throw a book away. [00:22:22] Speaker B: You don't throw a book away. [00:22:23] Speaker A: You don't. So if you mail somebody a book, there's a PI Attorney. We did in Florida, when life throws you a curveball. Because his. His story was he was a. Going to college to be a pitcher in the baseball, in professional baseball, and he. He threw his arm out. And so it filled his baseball career. He pivoted, became a personal injury attorney, and he was a little David against two monster Goliaths in his market. And he's like, Michael, I. I can't spend what they're spending. I said, you don't need to tell me your story. He. He told me a story. And. And so we. We pivoted him this way. Now he can say, hey, if life's throwing you a curveball and you got hit by a truck or slipped on a banana peel or whatever it is, let me know. Get a copy of my book. I've been where you are. I want to help you get better and get the settlement. You do, dude, it is because it's emotional, but I asked him, I said, william, have you ever told that story to anybody? And he said, no. He said, it's kind of personal. It's kind of hard to tell. I said, well, so sorry, but we're going to. [00:23:18] Speaker B: That's the one you need to tell. [00:23:19] Speaker A: Attorneys have stories, but they're not telling. Telling them. Yeah, a book, website, blogs, all of that. We need to lean into the story because they humanize you and it connects you at a deep, emotional level. And that's how we make decisions. So that. That's our philosophy around marketing and business growth and book publishing and everything, is that you got a story to tell, and we're going to tell it through this. We're going to just teach you how to do it in a lot of other ways also. [00:23:51] Speaker B: No, I love it. Yeah. Tell your. Your best story and lean into it. Don't try to be someone else or. [00:23:57] Speaker A: That's right. Be like yourself. [00:23:59] Speaker B: I fight for you. And, you know, those might work for some people, but I think people are going to connect with the ones that have a good story and. [00:24:07] Speaker A: Absolutely. [00:24:07] Speaker B: What better way to do it than to have the book? I love that title. Something. I want to go back to one thing that's just very similar to me and you, how you're doing your book. So we do content for SEO and blogs and drive traffic to hopefully, a website where the book might be or a video or whatever. But making that personal connection and telling that story is like, the main thing we want to focus on whenever we do get them to the website. But one of the ways things we do here, too, we write content for attorneys. I have a whole staff of writers like yourself. We record them. We're gonna write a blog. We're not just gonna be like, well, here we wrote a blog for you. Let's see what you think. No, it's, hey, Mr. Attorney or Mrs. Attorney, here's a question. And they just talk, and then we record it. And we get their voice and their brand, and we get the legal expertise that they have worked into all the content we do. And so we do a very similar thing here that you're doing for your books, which is awesome because that has been such a change here for us where, you know, people right now are using AI, agencies are using AI just to crank stuff out and slap it on the website and imagine if they did find it and read it and be like, oh, well, this isn't. Doesn't sound very human or helpful. And so what you're, the way you're doing it, I love. You're just literally letting them chat and talk and sounds like that. [00:25:32] Speaker A: Well, it's. Yeah, and it sounds like them. And we want to capture that in the book so that when you read the book, because we read books one on one normally, you know, it's just you and the author. You get to know them, then you set an appointment. And if you got some videos before the appointment where it's them, it just, it's. All of this is removing barriers to action. Right. We want to make it so that when that prospect shows up or connects with you or one of your attorneys, they, they're already preconditioned to hire you before you ever meet with them. Now they've got some questions and they're still a good fit and all that, but it, I mean, they're 80% of the way there, Shortens your sales cycle, increases your closing ratio and it sets them up and you for referrals because they're going to tell everybody say, dude, I was scared to death, but I met with this, I met with Kevin and he's a real guy, he's got a family and he just really put me at ease. He really helped me. And you know what he did? At the end of our meeting, he actually gave me three or four copies of his book to hand out. You should, I mean, if you're ever in this situation, you should just take a copy of Kevin's book, just read it. If you're having an auto accident or need some. He's a, he's really cool alternate. I just didn't think there were any out there. I mean, think about the impact of referrals. I have a whole script and a process to help you get referrals. So simple, so fun. [00:26:47] Speaker B: That's, that's some, that's some stuff. That's some good stuff right there. [00:26:51] Speaker A: I get a little passionate. [00:26:53] Speaker B: Sorry. No, I mean, yeah. Everything you're saying though, is, is what we try to accomplish. And you know, all the attorneys that I know, they're want to help people. Like they're, they're very passionate about that. And I think, unfortunately, the general public who's ever hired a lawyer doesn't really think that way. And so, you know, I know it, but how they. How are they going to know that? And so we have to assume that they, you know, they don't have a clue who you are. They don't care who you are. So we have to work that into everything we're doing, so. [00:27:27] Speaker A: That's right. [00:27:28] Speaker B: I love it. [00:27:29] Speaker A: Awesome. So, yeah. [00:27:30] Speaker B: What's the timeline for book? All right, Michael, let's do a book. You said 30 days for title and things like that. What's that other process like? [00:27:40] Speaker A: The entire process from. From today to when your book is ready to publish on Amazon? Anywhere from four months to about eight months, and that depends on how fast you need it done. Okay. But our standard perfect process is seven to eight months to get your book ready to publish, then we publish it. And then in month eight, we're doing the Amazon bestselling promotion, we're planning your marketing months. 9, 10, 11. We're developing the marketing, the podcast, all of that you're implementing and going from there. [00:28:08] Speaker B: Wow, that's awesome. [00:28:10] Speaker A: Yeah, it's. [00:28:11] Speaker B: You have a podcast already. [00:28:13] Speaker A: If you. If you have a podcast already, we still will interview you because experts get interviewed. So we would still do the interview of. Of you, tell you where to put those interviews. We're gonna. We're gonna syndicate them to the podcast platforms. But you should have them on your website. Right. You should have them on YouTube, on Facebook. So we'll teach you what to do there. But then the real magic comes in is what I find. Kevin, there are. There are a lot of attorneys and business owners who have podcasts. And I asked them through the conference. I said, that's great. Tell me, what kind of revenue are you getting from your podcast? Well, 95% of them say none at all. Some say, well, I have a sponsor. And I say, well, that's all great. My podcast generates six figures a year for our business because I've got a process and a structure to bring onto my podcast the right type of people. And so we educate them how to take your podcast and make it a profitable podcast and think about attorneys. How can you use your podcast to actually use. Generate more cases and more referral partners for your firm? I've got a process around that. So it's. It's taking your podcast to a whole new level. We also do audiobooks. You mentioned audiobooks. We can create audiobooks as well. I mean, we can do virtually anything you want us to do around the whole publishing credibility world. It just gets too complex to say, well, we do these 17 things. We're helping position you as the expert in a dozen different ways. [00:29:43] Speaker B: Well, I like that you've narrowed it down because. Yeah. You're trying to. We do a thousand different things. Well, you got to narrow down your message. Keep it straight, keep it tight. [00:29:51] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:29:51] Speaker B: So I preach podcasts all the time, too. I've actually give a lot of talks on why and how to start a podcast. I don't do it as a service, but attorneys can do very, very well with the podcast. And it's a blue ocean. There's only like, 4 million podcasts in existence. [00:30:07] Speaker A: Yes. [00:30:07] Speaker B: Compare that to the billions of websites that are out there or YouTube videos and things like that. So it's podcasts. You know, I heard someone talk the other day. They're like, it's like the. It's the new thing. Even though it's not new. [00:30:23] Speaker A: It's not. But I think in podcasting, we've gone from the bleeding edge, you know, to the cutting edge to the adoption phase, and we're getting ready to go up that real steep curve. You're. I think you're totally right. And you don't. The thing is, you don't have to be Joe Rogan. Right. If you. If you live in Omaha, Nebraska, and that's where your firm is, and that's where your market is. Good. How about, let's make your podcast about Omaha and invite people from Omaha, make it interesting. And it doesn't have to be about the law. It really doesn't. [00:30:56] Speaker B: I would say, don't make it about the law. [00:30:59] Speaker A: It'd probably be a whole lot more interesting. Right? [00:31:00] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:31:01] Speaker A: But then you become a community factor and a feature, and then you go out and people say, hey, I listen to your podcast. I love the. Whatever. That's how you grow your business. [00:31:10] Speaker B: Yeah, a hundred percent. Well, you know, this podcast you listen to, I bring on guests, and lawyers are mostly the guests. And we've gotten a lot of clients through this podcast from listeners, from guests that are like, you know what? I actually could use your hell's help. I don't sit here and go, here's what I do. We do marketing. We do blah, blah, blah. No, it's. You know, that's. That's. That kind of comes through enough to say, okay, I know what Kevin does. [00:31:33] Speaker A: That's right. [00:31:34] Speaker B: If you listen to the podcast, you're gonna. You're gonna know. But. But it builds relationships, referral partners. Michael is not an attorney. He's not gonna be a client of mine. It's not the point. I'm bringing, if I can bring value and someone can share something, I think my guest would be like, wow, I can get a book for 30 grand in seven months as a best selling author. That's, that's a pretty small fee to be honest with you. When you, when you go all, all said and done with something that you can use repeatedly for years. [00:32:01] Speaker A: Yes. [00:32:02] Speaker B: So, and even just, you know, I mean, law firms are spending 50 to 100 grand a month in some cases or more in their marketing. 30 grand just to enhance it completely is a no brainer. [00:32:16] Speaker A: So it, it is. And, and, and on. You know, one of the biggest challenges we have, Kevin, is, is getting people over the, the hump of. Well, it's a book. The book. Well, no, a book is one little piece of it. It's a big piece. But it's the messaging, it's the positioning, it's the, it's the credibility of being an Amazon best selling author, but also having the funnels, the video preconditioning, the podcast and that perspective that you are now, and I hate this word, you become, you go from being invisible to your audience to becoming more of an influencer. I'm looking for a definite word because I don't really like that word, but you know what I mean? You're trying to make an impact in your audience and you may only have 200 people in your audience. Guess what? Those 200 people, each of them know 20 to 50 people. And when you own them, you own their recommendations to those other people. Now your audience is huge. That's how you do marketing. Well, but it's, it's about so much more than the book. It's about your message, your brand identity, your book, your podcast, all of that to say, I want to be a resource for you and I'm giving you all these opportunities to connect with me, to listen to me, to dip your toe in the water of the Kevin Daisy world. That's the right way to market. [00:33:37] Speaker B: No, I love it. The same thing where like people like a law firm might reach out, say, yeah, we need a new website. Well, that's the tangible thing. That's the, the, the pretty thing. That's. They, they like seeing themselves on a beautiful website. You know, I get that, but what do we really want? And so the website's like, yeah, that's, that's. Who cares about, oh yeah, we make a beautiful website, no problem. But it's what's the outcome a year from now, six months from now, that you have market, you know, you're gaining market share, that you're. You have predictable leads coming in and you're beating your competition, and you're having clients come to you that are ready to sign because of the experience they had through the videos, the book, all those things that. That's what you should be excited about, not the website or the book. Right. [00:34:27] Speaker A: That's right. That's right. Yeah. Be excited about serving people, serving your audience, building systems, collaterals that are going to endure the test of time and that are going to help you serve more people at the end of the day. [00:34:41] Speaker B: I love it. Yeah, I love it. Imagine a thousand years from now, someone digs up your book, and they're like, oh, what's this? [00:34:50] Speaker A: You know, a physical copy? What is this relic? It'll go into a museum, but it's. Yeah, there. There's. There's nothing like being an author, Especially when people introduce you that way and you position you that way. It. It opens. It opens doors like nothing I've ever seen. If you're trying to get into a referral partner, a potential referral partner, I can't find a better way than to put your book into either a FedEx envelope or a big purple envelope and mail it to them with a nice letter and say, hey, I'm the guy who mailed you that big purple envelope. Did you get it? I mean, there's so many strategies and ways to open doors and grow revenue, and that's what we get really excited about. Yes, I can get you a book. Yes. Kevin can get you a website. Yes. That's not what excites us. We want to get behind you and say, what are you trying to make happen? And how can we add our little piece? And the thing I love about this relationship, Kevin, with you is, is everything that I do just fits perfectly with everything your team does. So it's a. It's a real, in the Star wars world, symbiotic relationship. Right. So what. [00:35:55] Speaker B: I think the hardest, you know, the hardest part. Yeah, you're right. And the hardest thing for us, if we have a client is will they make videos, will they produce content or help work with us to. Will they write a book or have a lead magnet? And it's like, we got some that don't want to do any of that, and some that go all in and some that are kind of in the middle, but we're always going to have a better result with the ones that are like, let's do this, let's do that, let's record videos, let's get a, you know, so the more we, you know, market, the more your marketing part partner has to work with and the more open and eager you are, the better. Right? [00:36:29] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. And, and, and we're, we're, we're structured a lot like you guys where you have kind of a done, done, do it yourself program. But most everything we do is as done for you co creation as possible. You know, we, we hop on video with you like you guys do and we record things for video and, and you show up, you do the video, you go away, we do everything else. Right. Same thing with the book. So we're trying to say we'll do all we can, but you're the expert. You have to show up and give us the content, show up on video because it's so important to connect. And if you do that consistently over time, you're, you're just going to get more clients and your business is going to grow. [00:37:09] Speaker B: Absolutely. And as a owner, lawyer, whatever, you can't be out of your marketing completely. Like, you can't be like, oh, I'm just going to never look at that again. You need to be involved, you need to have, you know, you need to be on top of it. So you need to be very involved with that. So. Well, Michael, I really appreciate you coming on. You have me sold. So if anyone needs to connect with Michael, what's, what's the best way to do it other than going to Paperback expert. Com. [00:37:38] Speaker A: That actually is the best way. That's where I send everybody because I mean you can connect with me and call with and all that but you, you get to experience who we are, what we do. Download one of our lead magnets. So you get to understand what a profitable author really is. But go to Paperback expert. Com. That's the center hub of all things Michael. I mean I'm on LinkedIn and everywhere else but Paperback expert. Com. [00:37:58] Speaker B: Awesome. And then maybe we'll see you soon at some other legal conferences out there. [00:38:03] Speaker A: So be good. That's always a good time. [00:38:05] Speaker B: Well Michael, thanks so much for joining me today. Everyone connect with Michael. Reach out to him. I love what he's doing and he's doing it the right way. So. And he's out there to help people. So appreciate that. Just want to mention again, answering legal, our new partner. And again this is not, we use an legal, they're not a paid sponsor. This is a mutual benefit with this. So answering legal, check them out and if you go to answeringlegal.com forward/array, you'll get 400 free minutes. Check it out. So that's it, everyone. Thank you so much, Michael. Thank you so much. And we'll see you soon. On the next episode.