Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Social media is a marketing tool at this point. Like, if you're just on there, you know, sharing pictures and videos of your kid at ballet, like, you are wasting a powerful tool. I think when I started practicing almost 20 years ago, you had more, like, in person networking. Right. And so you had to go out and beat the pavement. But there's such a focus now on people, rightfully so, wanting to reclaim more of their lives. And for me, that's where I found the balance is like, I don't have to be at every conference because you're. You pick up your phone and you're going to see me, you know, on your phone. And so I've had people say, it feels like you're everywhere. I'm like, it feels that way, but I'm not.
[00:00:37] Speaker B: Perception is powerful.
[00:00:38] Speaker A: That's exactly right.
[00:00:57] Speaker B: Most firms survive.
The best ones scale.
Welcome to the Managing Partners Podcast, where law firm leaders learn to think bigger.
I'm Kevin Daisey.
Let's jump in.
What's up, everyone? Kevin, with the Managing Partners podcast and spaghetti on the Wall, I have a special guest here today.
You probably know her from social media. She's speaking here at Law de Gras today or tomorrow?
[00:01:24] Speaker A: Tomorrow.
[00:01:24] Speaker B: Tomorrow.
So if you're here and you see this, gotta go check it out, but. Sarah Williams.
[00:01:30] Speaker A: Hello.
[00:01:31] Speaker B: Thanks for joining me. What's up?
[00:01:32] Speaker A: Thank you for having me.
[00:01:34] Speaker B: So I heard some news, but I'd rather just ask you. Yeah. What's up lately and what's going on?
[00:01:41] Speaker A: Yeah. So big life changes. Most people, I think, know me from my time at Alexandra Chouinar trial attorneys, but September 8th, I transitioned to Singleton Schreiber, and so I will be managing the Birmingham office and overseeing personal injury in the Southeast for Singleton Driver.
[00:02:02] Speaker B: That's huge news. I mean, I didn't even know until I was talking to the folks over there at your booth, and they had mentioned that. I was like, I did not know that.
[00:02:11] Speaker A: I know. So when Lottie Gras, they sent my information, they had Shannara on there. I was like, I'm pretty sure Singleton paid my registration fee.
[00:02:21] Speaker B: They're probably like, that can't be right. Yeah, let's change it.
[00:02:24] Speaker A: It has.
People were a little shook, but it was a.
It wasn't a bad break. I think that's the number one question I've gotten since I've been here. Like, what happened?
[00:02:35] Speaker B: You can tell everyone wants some dirt. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:02:38] Speaker A: They're like, well, what happened? It must have been a breakup. And I was like, look, you get to a place in your life. Like, I'm getting old.
My knees click as I'm walking. And I wanted to be able to build a team and to continue to really capitalized on having a brand that was national.
And I felt like Singleton was just a good fit for me to be able to really build a team of my own and not necessarily have to be in 150 some odd cases at a time versus kind of just handling some cases higher level and. And really just managing a team.
[00:03:13] Speaker B: That's awesome. Yeah. You know, people grow and they change.
[00:03:17] Speaker A: Alex and I are still good friends. That's still my boo. Don't talk bad about them, Alex.
[00:03:23] Speaker B: Well, you know, it's owning a company as well. It's like I've had so many good people come and go and you just can't hold them from doing what they need to do.
[00:03:32] Speaker A: Yeah. I had someone say to me that me leaving Alex is an example of why firm owners should not encourage their lawyers to brand. And I was like, I think first of all, he made a lot of money off of me branding myself. And second, what I've always loved about him is he's always said, like, at some point I know you're going to outgrow me. Right. And then I'm going to be happy for you whatever you do next. And I think so many managing lawyers and firm owners have the wrong attitude towards their people. Like, you don't own people. You know what I mean? And people, they're with you for the time they're with you, and then if they outgrow you, then be happy that they've grown. Right?
[00:04:17] Speaker B: Absolutely.
I love the fact that, you know, you can work in a law firm, have a brand like you have built on your own. And I think every law firm should encourage all the lawyers to go out there and crush it as much as they can.
And while they're still there, maybe they stay there forever, but they're building brand that they're attached to.
[00:04:36] Speaker A: That's right.
[00:04:37] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:04:37] Speaker A: And you will benefit from it at the time.
[00:04:42] Speaker A: And I think you have. There's a hard balance because realistically, when you provide that opportunity to people like Alex didn't just provide that opportunity to meet most people aren't going to want to do it. Right. And so the type of people that are willing to build their own brand are the type of people that if you don't let them do it, they're going to leave. Right? They're going to leave. So you're going to end up losing them anyway.
[00:05:06] Speaker A: Because, you know, most People, it's interesting to me. No matter what the incentives are that you offer for origination or whatever else, like, if you just don't have it in you, you can't make someone have that, like, spirit in them. Like, they either have it or they don't.
[00:05:21] Speaker B: I think the bigger challenge, I think law firms have is that their lawyers don't want to market themselves or create a presence online.
I've talked to many law firms where they're like, Kevin, can you come in and just tell my lawyers to get on social media and to start marketing themselves? And they, they're just so far, like, down at the bottom that they can't get their head around it.
[00:05:44] Speaker A: Yeah, I.
[00:05:47] Speaker A: I think, and I tell folks all the time, like, I am on social media for work, and you think that you know me. You do a little bit, but, like, that's not my whole life. Right. Like, I keep some things to myself. But social media is, is a marketing tool at this point. Like, if you're just on there, you know, sharing pictures and videos of your kid at ballet, like, you are wasting a powerful tool. I think when I started practicing almost 20 years ago, you had more, like, in person networking. Right. And so you had to go out and beat the pavement. But there's such a focus now on people, rightfully so, wanting to reclaim more of their lives. And for me, that's where I found the balance is like, I don't have to be at every conference because you're. You pick up your phone and you're going to see me, you know, on your phone. And so I've had people say, it feels like you're everywhere. I'm like, it feels that way, but I'm not.
[00:06:40] Speaker B: Perception is powerful.
[00:06:41] Speaker A: That's exactly right. Yeah.
[00:06:43] Speaker B: That's awesome. I've had people back in the day when social media was kind of, you know, a bigger, not a newer thing and. But local networking was still kind of a thing. But, man, you're everywhere. And it's like I'm at the office pretty much every day. And this is all perception.
[00:06:58] Speaker A: That's right. The other thing is I, I think a bit of it, when it comes to people not wanting to use it, is the ego. Like, you assume the people in your circles know what you do, but then you get frustrated when they call the marketer instead of you and you're their neighbor, you go to church with them. It's like people aren't checking for you like that. Like, people have no idea, like, what you're doing on a daily basis. And what types of cases that you handle unless you're constantly reminding them.
And so that to me, is what's been effective with social media. Even like cousins and stuff. Like, I'll have family members who'll say, like, hey, this happened, who should I call? It's like I've not been paying attention.
[00:07:37] Speaker B: That's so true. I don't know if anyone likes Grant Cardone or not, but Grant Cardone is always in some of his books. Like, go to your 100 people that you know and you call your friends, everyone you've ever known, they don't know what you do today.
[00:07:51] Speaker A: Right.
[00:07:51] Speaker B: And if you change brand or firms or whatever, they definitely don't know that either. And so you have to constantly remind your own network of what you do.
[00:08:00] Speaker A: That's exactly right. And.
Or don't have an expectation. Again, the phone call. And that I think is the problem when you, that I've seen is it's like, oh, you want to bonus me based on origination?
But I'm. And I'm upset that no one's calling me. What are you doing to get the phone calls? Like, again, I think it goes back to ego. You're like, oh, I've just been working hard. Nobody knows. Like, nobody's sitting out on the courthouse steps just like talking about work. You know, most people aren't even going to court. They're like logging in their computer with shorts on and a suit jacket on the top, you know, and so we don't, we also don't get enough of that anymore where you have a bunch of lawyers congregating at court and just chit chatting. And so I think you have to figure out how to recreate that. And to me, social media has been that avenue.
But I'm happy that not a lot of people take advantage of it.
Yeah. You know, if everybody was doing it, I mean, I think you know something else out.
[00:08:57] Speaker B: You feel like sometimes you post and it's like your friends might see it. Every single person, man. It's a lot of posts. A lot of posts, but only a few people see your stuff.
[00:09:07] Speaker A: Right.
[00:09:07] Speaker B: And you can't worry about your friends and your family. Like you're trying to reach past them.
[00:09:10] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:09:10] Speaker B: So they might be annoyed by it. No, no big deal.
[00:09:14] Speaker A: Yeah, the cringe factor. I think it's the judgy people. I told one of my friends was like, I'm just worried that people will judge me. I said, you know, you're worried because you judge people. Right. Like you're worried about people having those conversations because you have had those conversations. So one, like, stop, you know, having those conversations. But two, you're not doing it for them. Like, I don't care. You. You know, you can tell from your analytics kind of who's sharing stuff, but then who's just, like, sending it to each other, and it's just like, dude, I don't care. Thank you for the engagement. You know.
[00:09:49] Speaker A: Yeah. If you think it's cringe, you weren't going to be my client anyway. Like, as long as it's reaching its intended audience. Yeah, I love it.
[00:09:58] Speaker B: Well, you've done a great job. I follow you for sure already.
And I'm just happy you came to share something with me today. I'm looking forward to seeing your talk tomorrow. Yeah, sounds like you're not really even sure what it's about, but that's all good.
[00:10:10] Speaker A: No, it is about, you know, our firm's motto is fearless advocacy. And so this. I declared in January this was my year of audacity. I did not know in January that I was going to be leaving the firm. So it's going to be about, you know, how we can be fearless and have some, you know, audacity to really take control of our careers and our marketing and our branding.
[00:10:32] Speaker B: Oh, that's awesome. I look forward to doing that panel with a few folks. Or just.
[00:10:37] Speaker A: I will. I'm gonna show up. I did that panel last year, so sometimes I like to just come and listen. Like.
[00:10:41] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:10:42] Speaker A: You know, usually I'm speaking at so many panels that I don't get to hear the speaker, so I'm in. I'm looking forward to hearing some good branding advice.
[00:10:49] Speaker B: Excellent. I look forward to seeing you there.
[00:10:50] Speaker A: Awesome.
[00:10:51] Speaker B: Thanks for having me, everyone. Sarah Williams.
Excited to have her on the show. So thanks so much.
[00:10:57] Speaker A: Thank you.
[00:10:57] Speaker B: All right, we'll see you soon, everyone.
