Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign.
[00:00:18] Speaker B: Most firms survive. The best ones scale.
Welcome to the Managing Partners podcast where law firm leaders learn to think bigger.
I'm Kevin. Daisy.
Let's jump in.
What's up everyone? Welcome to another episode of the Managed Partners podcast. Today I got a guest actually I know her or know of her through my friend Jen Gore, but also her, I think her PR team reached out to have her on the show. So you never know how you're gonna run back into people or connect with folks. But Megan Shore is on the show today. She's got an awesome story, great firm rowing and just has a lot to share with us today. So Megan, welcome to the show.
[00:00:58] Speaker A: Thanks, I'm happy to be here.
[00:01:00] Speaker B: Yeah. So tell us a little bit about yourself or folks that might not know who you are about your personal injury firm and what you specialize in, where you're located.
[00:01:09] Speaker A: Yeah, so I'm located actually in Chicago. That's our main office. But I practice nationwide focusing primarily on nursing home abuse and neglect. I do do medical practice as well, general PI like auto. But nursing home abuse and neglect is really what I do. What I'm known for, what I practice nationwide. I love co counseling with people too. And we're relatively new firm. I started out, it's going to be our four year anniversary in October. We started small and obviously we've grown to have more offices. So we are also located in Ohio and like I said, we have some satellite offices throughout the country.
[00:01:45] Speaker B: Yeah, that's awesome. I mean, yeah, nursing home is, you know, I guess it's, it's a pretty good niche and it's not a lot of firms do it well or have the in house capacity to do it. So you know, what did you find, you know, how did you find yourself kind of getting into that niche and specializing there?
[00:02:03] Speaker A: Yeah. So it's ironic. I started on what I think is the total opposite end of the spectrum from being an elder abuse advocate which is doing birth trauma. So working with children that had difficult labor, cerebral palsy or other injuries. And then I went to a firm that did a lot of nursing home abuse and neglect and again another very vulnerable group of people or individuals. But what really got me so sucked into it and stay in it and develop my whole practice around it was I long story but got involved in electronic medical record auditing and doing that. I do expert work on it now actually and it was kind of up and coming when I was a young associate. No one was really doing it for nursing homes. So software and so and they're very Different. It's like a Mac versus, you know, working with Windows PC. They're. They're not the same.
A lot of experts out there will tell you they are, but they're not. So I really just cracked the code on that and started sharing what I knew and not looking turn into anything. And it exploded so much that people are like, you should really start a. A business just doing that. So we are really the leaders in nursing home abuse and neglect in terms of digital evidence and medical records, auditing them for false charting. You know, did the nurse delete something? If they did, what did it say? And so forth. So that's really how my firm got its name. And in terms of marketing, I mean, it was free marketing, essentially, and that's how we grew.
[00:03:38] Speaker B: That's awesome. For folks that are just listening to. What's the. Your web address, Is it. Sure. Injury law.
[00:03:45] Speaker A: So it's a little confusing, Right. So it is shore law.
And this is one of the things, in hindsight, I wish I had worked on better, but we ended up being short injury law because the domain for shore law was taken.
[00:03:58] Speaker B: Sure.
[00:03:58] Speaker A: Yeah. So that. That issue comes up a lot. And in hindsight, that is something that I wish that we had resolved before, but, you know, nothing's perfect.
[00:04:07] Speaker B: Well, I mean, I could talk to you all day about domain problems and clients with different domains or, you know, all kinds of crazy stuff, but yeah, it's. Sometimes you got to stick with what you got or you had to rip the band aid off and make the change at some point. But. Yeah, but I mean, I think that's fine. Just make sure people can check out. So it IsShort Injury Law.com.
[00:04:26] Speaker A: Yes. Yeah.
Short injury law.
[00:04:29] Speaker B: Yeah. So, quick random question. Do you know Joe? Is it. Was he good by Musso M U S?
Yeah. So Joe is big into. All he does is nursing home.
[00:04:40] Speaker A: Right.
[00:04:42] Speaker B: And I've had Joe on recently, and, you know, he's like, I know everyone that's. That's in the space. So I was gonna. I'm putting that to the test.
[00:04:49] Speaker A: Yeah, I saw him in Dallas last November almost a year ago, but, man, he is a powerful speaker on that topic. And he's just. He's amazing.
[00:05:00] Speaker B: Yeah. Cool. That's. Yeah. Joe's really. We actually do work marketing stuff like that for one of the firms that he, you know, he represents, he co counsels for. This is primary source of cases for him. So. Cool. Well, side question, but is it. So it sounds like, you know, in the nursing home space. Again, it's very Niche, a specialty for sure. And it sounds like it's a fairly small community of folks. And most of you all know each other, I assume.
[00:05:24] Speaker A: Yeah. And the leaders, we definitely know each other. Cause we want to help each other, which is what I love about that area of the law.
I don't feel like it's competitive.
If, you know, I win or we win, we all win. Right. And one great thing about it, and we're also very passionate about it with, with nursing home abuse and neglect. Unlike medical malpractice, there is a lot of corporate greed. Not that that doesn't happen in medical malpractice too, but there's a lot of form of greed and there's a lot of criminal conduct actually. So it gets, gets a little dirty in those cases, especially with the fraudulent farting and the COVID ups and the Medicare fraud. And that's why I really love it. And I. We're all just very passionate about it.
[00:06:08] Speaker B: Yeah. Well, plus it's kind of like, you know, a group of people that it's affecting versus kind of medical malpractice would be kind of, you know, I guess all over the board and just given the situation.
[00:06:19] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:06:19] Speaker B: This is like a known thing across, you know, elderly folks. So I could see where it'd be a lot more passionate and it's something that you can, you can lean into, learn and get better at doing so. Really Cool. So. Well, we obviously want to have you on here to talk about, you know, some of the things that have worked well for you, for other folks that might be listening trying to grow their law firms. And then when we talked before, you know, he had mentioned digital marketing, which is obviously right up my alley, but just building out your, your firm and what's been successful for you. So just love to dive into a couple of those things and just. Yeah. Tell us what, what you believe has worked and how you've been successful in the last couple years.
Thank you for tuning into the show today.
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Now back to the show.
[00:07:33] Speaker A: Yeah, well. And the best way to market is anything that doesn't cost money. Right. But the scariest thing you're ever going to do and the biggest risk you're ever going to take with being a lawyer is marketing, you know, because you don't know if you're going to necessarily get a return on investment. And when it comes to marketing, like I said, for me, the thing that worked best for was me. I was the brand. The knowledge I had about their electronic medical record softwares, that was the branding. And that certainly has worked and is still working for me. And fortunately now I'm in a place where I can start taking risks with marketing.
And one of the things I wish I had done from the very beginning, even though it is pricey, is more digital marketing. Because once you wait to do that, you know, you really are late to the game. It is a total pain in the ass. Going back, redoing your website, working on the SEO, vetting SEO companies, I mean, there's so many out there. But that has been certainly a game changer for me getting into the digital marketing. And of course now socials are huge, which I have not formally dabbled into in terms of paid socials, but I do do my own. And that's such a great outreach to the community now too. But you have to remember, like, who's your audience? And my audience, unfortunately most of them are deceased. But even if it's like their children are bringing this case, they're also much older than the demographic that's using socials. So socials isn't really what I think is best in nursing home abuse and neglect. I do think it's the best when it comes to like auto and general PI in terms of that outreach. Yeah, I mean we could have, I'm sure we could have a whole hour long conversation just on SEO alone. But there's so much more to that that people don't understand. Like, do you have the backlinks to support that? Meaning are you on other sites, are you being seen in the media, are you on Forbes? And I don't think a lot of people, lawyers take that seriously. I always did. I mean, as a young attorney, like I wanted information so badly, like to get my name out. There was always something I wanted and I didn't think that later on today it was going to pay off in terms of my SEO. I was just doing it because I wanted my name out there. But I think that more attorneys need to focus, especially solo practitioners. They tend to be a little bit more in their bubble, but really need to focus on their digital marketing to understand that. Like, because there's such, there's so much competition out there. I mean, you're just gonna, you're gonna drown, you're gonna get buried.
[00:10:11] Speaker B: Yeah, well, I mean, it's.
And to your point, the faster you, you know, you can start, the better because, you know, say, you know, I taught the solar firms all the time, you know, well, you know, I don't want to do all those things right now, or I don't know if I should invest in that. Or I said, well, where do you want to be a year from now or two years from now or three years from now if you're not doing those things right today, right out the gate? Um, and, you know, to your point, just own it. Put yourself out there. It's, you know, you want to be picked up, you want to be mentioned. You got AI, right? Search. Does AI come up or recommend you if they're searching for you? And so, and to do that, yeah, like, we've, we've added traditional pr. Like, old school PR is now a service we provide which helps our SEO practices because you need to get exposure on other channels, which will usually end up on digital channels as well. But it, you know, backlinks, like you're saying mentions. And then other websites, you know, LinkedIn, Reddit, the websites I used to just kind of crap on a little bit. It was the, like, lawyers, you know, lawyers or AVO and all these other listing sites, Those are more important now than ever, I think. So, yeah. How, how much exposure can you get out there? How many places can you be mentioned, really is the name of the game at this point.
[00:11:26] Speaker A: Yeah. You know, like, I hear a lot of lawyers say, like, super lawyers, you know, it's just some kind of political thing of how you get nominated. I'm like, I don't know if it is or isn't, but all I know is it matters for, for me in terms of my credibility, and it does help boost my SEO. So those things should matter to lawyers and they should care about that. And one of the things that I've. I'm going to be doing is I'm going to be giving a scholarship to my law school. And being on their website. That's another great link to have that. That helps my SEO and I'm doing something great that's meaningful to me. And there's, there's so much. There's such a science, this, that you know way better than I do. But a lot of I, I think that lawyers really need to take the time to learn and understand, even, like, read books on this, which I Have to learn this just like, just like we gotta learn our case to fact check what's going on or learn the medicine to question experts. We gotta do the same thing when it comes to our business.
You cannot firm believer that a well run business means you know how to run each part of it. Even if you're gonna delegate it to someone else. You need to know how to do it.
[00:12:33] Speaker B: You need to have an understanding. I, I tell lawyers that all the time. Like you don't need to be a digital marketing expert or an SEO expert, but if you have zero understanding of it, you're going to get screwed or someone's going to take advantage of you.
You know, you just won't, you know, you just won't know what's working. You know, you won't understand the numbers or you won't understand what's this mean, if this good or bad. So I think, yeah, I agree with you a hundred percent. Again, you don't have to be expert, but you need to have enough understanding and then go, okay, I get it. You guys go do that or I'm going to delegate that to you. But I understand it to some degree and things are changing rapidly, rapidly too. So it's highly what you said. It's like, like the super lawyers, like they don't care or they don't whatever. Like it's part of the, it's just part of your strategy. And if that's one piece that helps the overall strategy, then, then do it. Right. So yeah, it's not emotional.
[00:13:25] Speaker A: Right, right. And you know, the big thing now too is, which I really just sucked into learning about before I commit to anything is, you know, streaming advertising. You know, I don't, I will not watch regular TV anymore. Like I don't want to see commercials. But I mean, this is the, this is the future too is being on those, those streaming apps and devices as well. And it's so much more affordable than TV advertising. It's just a matter of finding the right people to do it, sending the right message. Of course, it's, it's completely fascinating to me about how with the streaming you can literally target your audience based on their data, which is really scary. But if I want to target people that are of a certain age, like women over 70, for example, which tend to be my callers for nursing home cases, I can, yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, I can do that. And that's, that's, I think that's just amazing and something that I'm really getting.
[00:14:23] Speaker B: Into with traditional tv. You couldn't do that. You could just choose shows that you think might have that demographic or that age, but there's no like great data for it. So. Yeah, the streaming.
[00:14:37] Speaker A: Yeah, Same time tv.
[00:14:38] Speaker B: Yeah. All the soap operas.
[00:14:40] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly.
[00:14:42] Speaker B: That might be your deal. Yeah. And then yeah, obviously traditional TV or old TV versus the streaming. The streaming is so popular. I think, you know, my mom and you know, she's in her 70s, like grandparents, they all pretty much have streaming at this point for the most part for anyway. So I think that's a great. Especially for where you know who you're marketing to. That makes a lot of sense.
[00:15:01] Speaker A: Yeah. And you know, everyone is also just shifting to that and going more into the AI world. Everyone's using ChatGPT, which I did not believe until I was at a family barbecue two weeks ago. And my cousin's great, grand, great grandfather in law was, he's in an assisted living facility. He's at the barbecue and he's talking into his phone with Steve, with Siri and asking ChatGPT all these medical questions and how to find this and how to find that. He's having this full conversation with me about this is how I know what's wrong with this feeling in my leg. And so they're actually using this in these facilities. So when I say everyone's using it, they really are. I didn't want to believe that at first, but it's the truth.
[00:15:42] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. I mean, you know, and from, you know, a Google perspective, which has kind of been my world for a long time, it's like now there's this whole other way to find information. So you, you know, you could say, what's the best divorce attorney in XYZ City? Or what's the best, you know, what's the best nursing home abuse attorney in the country, Whatever. Right. And it's only going to give you a couple options and it's going to use a lot of data from a lot of different sources to give it its answer. And they'll even tell you how it came to that conclusion. Why'd you put Megan Shore up there? And it would say, well, because blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And people trust that whether or not it's a hundred percent accurate or not, people are starting to trust that, that that's real. You know, that's the best answer. So yeah, what are, what are firms doing to prepare to shift from Google being the only source now to having this in your pocket, you know, and, and, and you say, okay, well call, call Megan, sure, he'll do it. For you. So. So yeah, it's pretty interesting. But yeah, all the things that you're talking about like Forbes or Super Lawyers are coming up other places those AI models are using those sources to make its recommendations.
[00:16:48] Speaker A: So yeah, and of course that's like why the content is so important on your website. You know, we're just really diving into that and we're going to have a completely new website soon. But I mean, content is king really, because still is, especially if it's authoritative, that is higher AI questions because I convinced that most people, I've actually done a focus group on this through ChatGPT. You can do focus groups through for real. It's, it's wild. But what I learned is that people don't even know that there are nursing home lawyers or auto accident lawyers. They just know lawyers. And a lot of the times when something's wrong with them, another thing they're doing is they're typing in like how much is an auto accident case worth? Simple things like that. And what AI is generating is answers based on your content and your website.
You have like authoritative literature. Like I've published literature on the false charting aspect of software. Believe it or not, a lot of people, you know, think there are conspiracies, which is there are with their medical record being altered. And those people find me through typing that stuff in in AI because my articles have popped up.
So your content is just extremely important. And one thing I always encourage especially young lawyers to do is while you have the time because life is only going to get more busy. Believe it or not, it doesn't get easier.
Write articles if you can, for your local bar associations. That's how actually my name got known as I just wrote one for a local one here. I didn't expect it to get even recognized. And the next thing I know, it's becoming a nationwide thing where a jay wants it in Trial magazine. And I'm presenting, I've almost presented in I think like 40, 42 states now it's almost all 50 on that topic. So I always encourage people like start with your content and your literature while you're young.
Even if you switch firms, you get that's still yours. You get to keep it with you. And even if you're, you're not young and you're older, you should still do it too because you have all the years of experience or your firm's combined experience to get that published out.
[00:18:59] Speaker B: 100% agree with you. And thing is you as an individual, right, A lawyer, whether or not you're inside a firm or if you run the firm or whatever that's tied to you as, as a lawyer. So if you're in your firm one day, then you can take that with you. If you go to another firm, you can take that with you. And your unique perspective and view and experience sets you apart. And that's that right now is super important because everyone that's using AI 100% just to generate copy and content, there's nothing unique about it. It's just pulling it from other sources. You know, it could pull it from your website and, and use it to source your unique, your brand, your voice. And then your experience worked into the copy is what AI and Google still are, are looking for. They're looking for what's unique and different. And so no matter who you are, if you write a piece of copy of content, your experience, your, your thoughts, that's going to be unique that no one else can, can copy.
[00:19:56] Speaker A: Exactly, exactly. And it's, if anything, even if it doesn't really get you, you know, far in terms of like, recognition, at least it's, it's linked to a reputable source that you can use one day to boost, like I said, you know, your credibility in terms of your digital marketing.
[00:20:11] Speaker B: And you never know what's going to hit. Right. So it's just being consistent and putting stuff out there. And next thing, you know, and kind of SEO is you're, you're putting your best foot forward, you're putting out copy that you think is going to work, you're getting backlinks. And then when it starts to pay off, it really pays off big. And it's kind of got that longevity to it and something you can build on top of. So if you're just putting out good copy that you believe is right because it's your expert opinion as a lawyer, it's going to serve you well no matter what. And it's just a good practice to have. So.
[00:20:40] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. And you know, I hear so many times from a lot of lawyers like, oh, we don't, we don't do any type of marketing or invest any type of marketing because we get referrals. And I think that's a terrible idea because when you even get a case referred to though, those clients are going to go, most are going to look you up.
[00:20:59] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:20:59] Speaker A: And if they can't find you, then they're like, well, I just got referred to this person because there's probably some, you know, referral fee that guy is getting. I mean, they do think about that. Stuff. And, and I remember in my first year because I didn't have anything in terms of digital marketing going for me yet. I had a very great firm that was referring me cases, but a lot of them weren't ultimately calling me after they sent them to me. And, and I started, you know, pressing them to find out why I reach out to them and they would say it's because, you know, when I typed you in, you didn't pop up in Google or there were no reviews, you know, that sort of thing. So it does matter if you are just relying on getting cases through referral.
[00:21:43] Speaker B: Yeah, I totally agree with you. I, I'll tell folks all the time, he's like, you know, you know what, where are you in your life cycle of your business? Are you trying to just get a nice presence looking and so that you were converting more referrals or you know, are you trying to drive new business past referrals? And so either, you know, if, even if you only have referrals and that's all you ever want, you need to have a professional presence, beautiful website and you need to be putting out copy and content and getting reviews because that's just a good practice to have. Like you were saying, understand all the parts of the business, understand that your client needs to come into the business through intake, all the way through and become a five star review and referral. That should be your process, your goal for every single person. It's not going to happen for everyone, but that should be processed out. And so I feel like people that only get referrals just think, well, I don't need to do any of those things or worry about a lot of that stuff because I just get business from referrals.
[00:22:34] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:22:34] Speaker B: And when those dry up or the referral sources go away, it's not good. I've talked to a lot of lawyers that have had that happen and they just kind of got comfortable and then they have, they don't have the budget or the funds to, to go, I want to be in digital marketing now. Well, it's going to take too long for them to recover.
[00:22:50] Speaker A: Yeah. Like what I see too is feel like well, you don't need to do the marketing because I'm getting cases. And then they stop getting the case and like, oh, I need to do the marketing. But now I can't afford it because my forecast for next year doesn't look like it's going to be as good and they don't have the money to spend on that. So that's, that's why? It's like I think a bad idea to do that. Like, you just got to start from the beginning, take that risk. I mean, a very successful lawyer who's on a lot of billboards, the Illinois Hammer. I spoke to him before he actually officially started my own firm and he said to me, my best advice, advice to you, Megan, dump all your money into marketing. Just dump it. And, and I, you know, I, I listened to him. Like I, he was the one who told me I should start my own firm actually.
So I believe in that and it is a huge risk. But it's better to learn that risk early on before you're in a lot of trouble and you have a firm like high volume clients that you, cases you need to fund and so forth. Do it early.
[00:23:47] Speaker B: Yep, a hundred percent. I was, I just had a, a couple of PI attorneys that reached out to me.
They haven't started their firm, they still work for other firms, but they're starting January 1st. They're a new firm and they're like, we're well funded. We've been putting things away. We have referral sources, you know, we want to go all in on, you know, website yo content.
You're seeing all the right things. And they're, they're ready to invest what most firms aren't ready to invest that have four or five attorneys that have been established for a few years.
Impressive. But they had a plan, they had a strategy. They know they need to do it. They don't even understand a lot of it, but they know they need to do it.
So yeah, I would just say be careful and vet who you're talking to and you can hire the wrong people or bring in people that might not be able to do it well, but I think that's the process, you know, of getting started is learning what's going to work. And, and you might just like hiring employees. You're going to have some bad ones and some good ones. Hopefully, hopefully you'll get all good ones.
[00:24:46] Speaker A: Unfortunately, you know, SEO is playing the long game, right? Like it's not, it's not going to come back to you right away. And that's, that's something that you need to be prepared for. I'm preparing for that myself right away, which is why a lot of people get into like the pay per click and Google Ads, which is also stupid, expensive. You know, it's just, and there's, there's so, so much out there, so many ways to market that I think could help offset that, that delay in waiting to get that Recovery. But I mean when you think about all you really need is like one good case that's worth over 250,000 to really pay off what you invest in SEO. If you're doing like a moderate like starter level type of amount, I think, and I don't think that sounds unreasonable at all to get that and I think that's, that's worth the risk. But I think another thing a lot of people don't prepare for when they're looking to get into this because obviously your volume is going to increase, you're going to be getting more calls. A lot of those calls are not going to be a case is they're not prepared internally to take on that task. Like do you have a good CRM system that can handle your leads so you can keep track of them? Do you have a good call intake system? Like I'm a firm believer that nothing is better than person answering a call, but I do use an AI generated call answering service too. That sounds pretty damn real.
[00:26:12] Speaker B: People are using that now.
[00:26:13] Speaker A: Yeah, handle overflow and that is integrated into my CRRM system. So when someone AI does the intake and gets all the information, it is already showing up in my system clio in the pipeline as a lead and it's already set up in there and I don't have to manually type it in. And I think a lot of people don't think about the process that needs to be put into place to even handle the marketing, which is a whole other issue in and of itself.
[00:26:40] Speaker B: Yeah, that's, that's a huge topic here on the podcast. You know, intake and, and kind of fine tuning that and always working on it. And yeah, I like what you said there too. I, I would always prefer a real person but a missed call is not helping either party. So if you can have AI or someone else take that or a 24 hour call center or something is better than dropping the call or missing the call. For someone that needs your help, you know, if you believe you're the best to help them, you know, you want to make sure you can connect with them. So yeah, I'm definitely starting to see some, some clients and non clients using AI and it will get better to the point that it'll be hard to tell and it might do a better job because if you had a bad day, Megan, or you know, you were just a ticking calls all day, you know, might affect your mood or it might affect how you handle a call because we're human.
[00:27:26] Speaker A: So definitely needed a buffer. Cause I, I part of what I liked about my practice when I started was when you call the office, the person you're going to end up talking to is going to be me. And I wanted to help everybody. You know, like, finding cases and also telling someone what their case is worth when I'm getting settlement authority are my least favorite things to do as a lawyer. And telling someone like their, their case is not a case, not that it's not neglect or bad care, it doesn't rise to level, we can file a lawsuit is a tough thing to do. And I realized I needed that buffer in between because it was consuming me, honestly. And it was, it was just too much of emotionally draining for me, honestly. But I do find that, yes, you, you know, you gotta have the live, the live calls because I, I noticed like when we do get the AI intakes and I go to call them back, even if it's within like 30 minutes, there's like a, I would say 75% of the time I don't hear back from them. They either called someone else who did, you know, sign them up right away or they've gotten cold feet because they start to think this is overwhelming and oh, no, I don't want to do that. That's usually the excuses I hear when I am able to finally get in touch with them. So I always like, want to make sure that there's a point of contact that's going to like lock them in right away before they go and make the mistake of hiring someone else.
[00:28:42] Speaker B: Yeah, well, yeah, those are big things that I think. You know, one of the issues I see is sometimes these, the smaller ones are, the ones maybe are kind of in trouble and they didn't really market a lot. And so, you know, they want help getting some movement, some leads, some calls, is they're in a tougher spot. They don't really have the funds or the infrastructure. And so if you do even get them some leads through pay per click or something like that, they're not prepared for it. And they didn't invest in intake. And with PI and stuff like that, I mean, you're talking about minutes. People will hire a firm if they get a hold of a big firm with a good intake team, they're. They're gone, you know, so it's, it's pretty cutthroat out there. So you definitely want to take care of the intake side of things as you're marketing.
[00:29:29] Speaker A: One way to kind of resolve that though too is like that to kind of humanize the practice is having videos on your website. Yeah, because again, it's something I'm. We're adding to our new website. But you know, for most of reasons, one, they get to know you and see that you're a real person and what you're about. I just had a woman 2 days ago tell me that she picked me because I look like the one who would care. I was just like, that was so touching to me, you know, and I realized like, and it was just based on a photo, the headshot.
[00:30:01] Speaker B: And I do care.
[00:30:03] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. So like the photos, the videos, that, that matters. But also it matters too because someone might stay on your site longer and that as you know, helps your Google rankings and, and keeping them retained on the site, even if the video is terrible. But, but I think it can have leverage in that respect too. So it's functional. But also it serves its point in connecting with your future intake.
[00:30:27] Speaker B: People do business with people and video is a huge conversion tactic, if you will. It's if you have a page without video versus one with or photo of an attorney versus like a stock photo.
Huge differences. They, they have to have that connection. They have to feel comfortable. They haven't caught a lawyer before. They don't know what to expect if they're going to get taken advantage of or charged a fee or, you know, they don't understand the world like you do. And so yeah, having a video where they can hear you, see you is going to keep them on the page longer and they're going to build some kind of connection to whether they feel like they know you.
[00:31:01] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:31:02] Speaker B: So massive. And then that's where social media, I think is really worked well. Because I could say, oh, I saw it on a reel or story and then I got to reach out to, to that firm. You know, I haven't, maybe I haven't done it yet, but now I get to kind of know you and see you and that's going to be a. Decide and factor for which firm I go with or whatever. Even though your demographic might not be on social as much, you can take the videos you're doing for that and repurpose them on your, on your website.
[00:31:26] Speaker A: Yeah. And, and it's, it's kind of crazy. Like a lot of the cases that I do get are people who, and I started doing this back when I was a young associate. I would post a lot of my travels like I'm a big traveler and I would do that. Not just so I wanted my family and friends to see it, but I was trying to get people to pay attention to like my stories or my Facebook page so that when I would every now and then have a post that's actually work related, people would notice that. Because if you're constantly just posting, you know, just general PI stuff or settlement announcements, people get bored with that. Like, honestly, people don't care because 97% of individuals are not looking for a lawyer at the time. You know, you're just creating a brand awareness, essentially.
A lot of the times I'll get cases where like, oh, I saw on your social media that you're a lawyer. I didn't know. I just always pay attention to your travel, you know, so. And it works. And I, I did that and I remember like getting some slack from my superiors about it. Like, don't post, you know, commingle work and travel and all that. And I was like, well, I'm gonna keep doing it working for me. And I do that.
[00:32:39] Speaker B: Yeah, Yeah, I did my most. Mine's mostly family and my Facebook stuff is, for the most part, it's family and friends. And then you'll see some work stuff every once in a while. But Instagram's more company stuff, I guess, but. And LinkedIn, but. But, yeah, I agree. I think be yourself and. And you don't have to post stuff about the law all day long.
[00:32:57] Speaker A: Right, right. And branding a little weird because you have like the PI guys that are, you know, posing as like, Tarzan and swinging from vines and getting clients that way. And then I noticed the med male nursing people, you know, they're far more serious. I. I struggle with both ends of the spectrum. Like, I think some are just really crazy, but I get why they do it. And I wish I could swap my pride and be like that.
I really do. I probably get a lot more cases, but I also don't want to be like the conservative lawyer where you see a lot of like catastrophic injured med male lawyers do, which are more serious because they all are the same. They just, they just blend in all together. I do a lot of mentoring with lawyers and I always just say, like, what is it about you that makes you different? Like, for me, I struggled with the fact that few say I didn't look like a lawyer, or I get mistaken for the paralegal or the secretary, or they'd be like, you're too young. Until, like, literally just even a year ago, where I said, that's it. That, that's. That's actually the brand. I don't look like a lawyer. And I'm going to continue to be the face of my firm, which obviously is paid off because like I said, I have clients that say to me, you look like you care. And I, for a long time, I was going to have absolutely nothing in terms of video marketing or photos on my website and keep it very simple, sterile, because I thought that would be better. And I've learned that's not the case.
[00:34:20] Speaker B: Yeah, 100%. Yeah. You have to it most is all these firms that are successful, you know, the owner or the founder typically is going to be the brand.
And that on purpose because people, again, people remember people and they remember they want to work with people. They're. They're not going to follow your firm, you know, on. On socials or like Jen Gore, right. She. She's the brand of that firm. 100 through and through.
[00:34:47] Speaker A: I see her everywhere. Yeah, I'm like, when does she work? I'm sure people think that about me too. They're like, oh, she's always traveling. You know, it's just, it's. It's part of the marketing.
[00:34:57] Speaker B: All my friends and stuff are always like, kevin, you're traveling. And they're everywhere all the time. I see.
But sometimes it'd be, you know, last month or so, I haven't gone anywhere. So it's just. We have a lot of content. We put out all the time. And I do go places and travel, but it's just a lot of perception. More than it is anything but. But yeah, it's. It's just be yourself, you are the brand. And you gotta. If you're an attorney or a solo or someone starting up, just realize that if you don't want to play that role and you're the only attorney, you know, you better hire a mascot or something. That is what you need to do. And that's what people are looking for. And not. It's not all comfortable, you know. And I know plenty of returners that do the crazy videos and some that are conservative and some, you know, kind of find their own little magic spot. But I think that's what, you know, that's what we're all looking for is like, what works for me and what will work with my brand. And once you find it, you know, it kind of clicks and it takes off.
[00:35:55] Speaker A: Yeah, definitely. So I think that, you know, just getting outside your comfort zone, letting go of those insecurities can make all the difference and what, you know, set your practice off for success.
[00:36:07] Speaker B: And plus, you. You kind of step back and do some thinking about it, like, I don't want to be this. I don't want to be that, you know, what if people said, you know, some people said that, you know, I look like I care. Some people say I, I don't look like a lawyer. Aha. You know, so maybe you just need to do some, some soul searching.
[00:36:25] Speaker A: Yeah. I think a lot of people, you know, they spend too much time comparing themselves. You know, it's John Morgan. He said once lecture I was listening to, he said, comparison is the thief of joy. And that really resonated with me. And I. When I took that to heart and stopped comparing to other firms and what they were doing, that's when I saw my practice excel so much in the last two years.
[00:36:48] Speaker B: It's awesome. Love it. Well, Megan, I appreciate you coming to share. We could both talk about a lot of those things in great detail, but I appreciate you coming on to share and what you've done. It's been awesome and excited to see where you're going, your new website, all these good things. So anything else you want to share before we.
We wrap up?
[00:37:05] Speaker A: You know, I always love when people reach out, whether they're looking for help with starting their practice or how to handle a nursing home case or marketing advice. So I'm, I'm always happy to help. I personally didn't really have people to help me, so I'm just all about trying to pay forward as much as I can. If there's anyone who wants to talk with me or reach out, like, please don't hesitate to do that.
[00:37:29] Speaker B: I love that. Thank you for that offer. And again, I come across a lot of folks that listen to this show that, you know, kind of starting out or they're. They're about to start or maybe they just started and, and I like to hear that. So, yeah, please reach out to Megan. Connect with her. She's super helpful. She's. She's willing. And if you can't find or connect with her for some reason, let me know and I'll make an introduction. Please reach out. Megan, what's the best way otherwise for folks to follow you or connect with you?
[00:37:54] Speaker A: Email is always best ensure @shore injury law.com.
um, otherwise, by all means, feel free to text me or call me. I am never shy to give out my cell phone number. It's 630-440-9225. I'm more than happy to chat.
[00:38:11] Speaker B: That's awesome. I'm sure you can find her on social media too, so. And we'll be tagging her in this episode. So.
Thank you so much, Megan, for, for hanging out with me and everyone thank you for tuning in as always. Hope you found it helpful. And we'll see you on the next episode. Episode Goodbye.
