Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign.
[00:00:18] Speaker B: Most firms survive. The best ones scale.
Welcome to the Managing Partners podcast, where law firm leaders learn to think bigger.
I'm Kevin. Daisy.
Let's jump in.
What's up, everyone?
Welcome. I have a great guest today. She's been on a few times. Got Cassidy Lewis here on the show. She works for Cooper Hurley Injury Lawyers, and she's also been part of PILMA for quite a while. She runs the CMO Roundtable and she's got some cool news. She is starting her own program, which I'm excited to hear more about here on the show. But we'll be talking about a lot of things with marketing that you can do for your firm. I'm excited to dive into it. So, Cassidy, welcome to the show again.
[00:01:02] Speaker A: Thank you, Kevin. And remember, we agreed I was the number one guest.
[00:01:06] Speaker B: The number one guest by far. Unless you're another guest that I've told that to. And you're listening.
[00:01:13] Speaker A: Hey, everybody. Yes. My name is Cassidy Lewis. I'm the chief marketing officer at Cooper Hurley Injury Lawyers. Been here going on eight years. Lead a team of four, soon to be five. I am hiring a senior senior marketing manager. Spent most of my time in marketing, most of my adult career. So politics, nonprofit sales, all the things. And just love marketing. Like, I love the human brain. Love understanding or trying to understand the human brain and consumer behavior. So, yeah, that's me.
[00:01:44] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah, you're awesome at it. A lot of folks know who you are. You do a great job internally for, for your firm that you're at. And I, I'm, I live in the same market here by Cassidy, so I see Cooper Holy stuff all over the place. They really, they really have done a great job. And. Yeah. So I'm excited for her to share. She can share a ton. Pass this episode to connect with her, reach out to her, connect with her on LinkedIn. She's always posting a lot of great stuff too. So, yeah, excited to kind of dive into some of the things that you said you could share that you had on your mind today. But you know, what, what are you kind of passionate about right now and what's. You know, I know you do a lot of community marketing there a lot through database marketing, but the firms that are listening, you know, they're, they're, they're struggling to figure out what's best for them. Do they hire agencies? Do they have internal? Do they have both? What are you seeing and what, what's working best for. For you guys right now?
[00:02:38] Speaker A: Okay. Yeah, that's a good one that, you know Supposedly the agency versus the internal marketing conversation is always a funny one to me because why does it have to be versus why can't it be? And, and for us, for Cooper Hurley injury lawyers, that's been the thing that has worked the most.
I think agencies partnering with credible agencies could take your firm further and faster than you can go on your own. The research that they're able to do across multiple law firms in different regions, the, you know, them having 20, 30, 40 experts working on solving solutions for your firm, I think agencies are needed. But agencies have their place, as do internal marketers. Your internal marketer is not going to, your agency is not going to be able to write thank you cards to the attorney referrals. They're not going to be able to sit down with your intake team and talk about what you're doing, all of what you're doing on the marketing side. And this is what this, they're the, the gifting, the client gifting. You wouldn't call your agency if a client mother passed away and say, hey, can you send them flowers? That and you know, just the, the big picture strategy that comes with having someone work 40 plus hours, 40 plus hours just in case my boss is listening. 40 plus hours a week. 60, 72, 40 plus hours a week on and in your firm. So I have seen more of, and maybe because of my new business, the CMO Academy, I have seen this shift where there is more of the. And conversation. I want a really good agency and I want to have a really solid internal marketer or marketers. And I'm happy to see that shift.
[00:04:31] Speaker B: Yeah. Now I, as I talk to clients all the time, sometimes they'll bring me like, hey, should I hire internal person or hey, I'm looking for a fractional cmo or I'm looking for. Or they just ask questions like, you know, should I have or instead of an agency, should I just hire a marketer? So it's definitely a conversation that I like being part of My, I always say this. The firms that we work with that have the best success and that we have the best relationship with, have internal marketers.
[00:04:56] Speaker A: Yeah, they're boots on the ground.
[00:04:58] Speaker B: They're boots on the ground, you know.
[00:05:00] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:05:00] Speaker B: They live and breathe that brand. We can't unfortunately, we need to be given and provided information of what's happening within the firm.
[00:05:08] Speaker A: Right. I, I was gonna ask you that. Do you feel like those clients that have, that you work with that are clients of yours that have an internal marketer, do they go deeper in their marketing do they have better strategy? Do they have, you know, check the boxes?
[00:05:22] Speaker B: Yes, absolutely. And I wouldn't say all, but the ones that have good internal marketers that get it, that have KPIs and they're tracking things and they also kind of know where their lane is and they know where it's not right. And they know that they need to leverage a partner. And that could be for all kinds of things, whether it's a gifting partner, if it's a community partner, traditional digital, whatever it may be, they understand that, you know, what they need to do internally and then hire that partner to do those, the heavy lifting. So yeah, we, the firms that do the best have someone internal, a liaison to us, someone that we can, you know, communicate with and bounce things off of. So in my experience, I'd say majority of the ones that have internal marketers, we see better results for across the board.
[00:06:06] Speaker A: Yeah, see. So attorneys, you're listening. See, it's not just Cassidy saying it. Kevin says it too. Must be right if we both said it. Kevin must be true.
[00:06:13] Speaker B: It is. Now in, you know, obviously if you're a smaller firm or startup firm or just, you know, a few attorneys, you know, you typically start with, hey, we have an admin and they're kind of helping with some marketing stuff. That's again, it's not just their experts at marketing, but they're, they're organizing, they're, they're, they're saying, hey, here's where the firm is going. I just met with the partners and we're, we're trying to move into this, this area over here, this new loc.
Like we need to know that information.
[00:06:39] Speaker A: Right.
[00:06:40] Speaker B: And if we have someone internally that can be given us that, then we can make decisions on our side and say, hey, well, we need to retalk about the strategy because now they want to move into a new office location. Did you think about what that means for the digital footprint for their Google business profile? Yada, yada, yada. Right. So just having that person, sometimes the partners just kind of break things and do things that they don't really tell you what's happening.
[00:07:03] Speaker A: So no, no, not them.
[00:07:05] Speaker B: Never.
So again, if you're smaller starting out, having someone that can fulfill that role of the communication I think is important. Obviously it's great when you can have someone like Cassidy and a whole team behind her on top of that. That's, you know, that's amazing. But, but you guys are pretty sophisticated and pretty far along in your journey, so don't feel like that's where you need to be.
[00:07:25] Speaker A: No, no, no, no. I tell people that all the time when they call and ask me like especially numbers. I used to be an accounting major. I like numbers that make sense. Like don't give me like that sign. Cosine. Not that I mean numbers that make sense that they to me they just tell stories and so they'll call me about reporting or research. You know, this research project I do on my database or on my cases. It's like I did this year four here or year six and you know what I mean? You don't have to go that far. Just pay attention to these five things. You don't need to produce a KPI with the KPI report with these 20 KPIs. Like just have it. It's me and, and three other people working 40 hours a week. I meant 40 plus, Jim, if you're listening, 40 plus hours a week. So don't. It's not that you need to come out the gate looking like, looking like what we are doing, but doing something is what, what is the most important.
[00:08:22] Speaker B: Yeah, I was, I was responding to someone's LinkedIn post the other day about you know, marketing or something like that. But it's like, you know, you should always be tracking, testing, but never stop, never not market, always be marketing. So whether or not it's the perfect thing at that time or it was going to work out the way you thought it was, you're always testing, you're always tracking, you're always looking at data and numbers but you never stop marketing. Right. So. So yeah, I think, yeah, depending on where you're at. Do you need a full time person? Do you need a, a few people? Do you need a cmo? A fractional cmo? That's going to vary and I think again Cassie would be a great person to turn to, to reach out to, to probably give you an idea of where you are versus what you need. You know. The fractional CMO thing has become pretty popular.
[00:09:05] Speaker A: Very popular. Yes. Yeah, I mean it's. I used to be, when I own my business, I used to be a fractional cmo. Not for law firms, but I've seen it. A good, A good amount.
[00:09:14] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah, I've connected with quite a few. Margarita with marketing boss, you got Ron Latz, Delacy Friday. He's really helping firms more on the referral side of things. But just some great folks out there that you know have had experience internally like yourself that, that really have real world experience that you know can help a firm that Maybe doesn't need a full time CMO or doesn't can afford one to be able to get some of that information I think is great. I want to talk about some of the community stuff that you're doing and how that's really paid off for you. But tell, tell me a little bit more about your new program too and who that's best suited for.
Thank you for tuning in to the show today.
I have taken things to the next level and I've started the Managing Partners Mastermind. We're a peer group of owners looking for connection, clarity and growth strategies. So if you're looking to grow your law firm and not do it alone, please consider joining the group.
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Now back to the show.
[00:10:26] Speaker A: Sure. Yes, I'm excited. So at the start of the year I opened up the CMO Academy. You can see how much more eloquent I can be@the cmoacademy.com when I type everything out.
But I started the CMO Academy and there are two sides to it. There is me mentoring your internal marketer. We sit down every month, every month there are templates every month there is reporting and it's extremely customized to where your firm is today and then where it is going tomorrow. Okay, it is, you can call it a coaching program, a mentorship program, just I say this often. You get clothesline by legal marketing, especially injury law. Especially injury law. I cannot stress that enough. It's different. The prices are different, the competition is different, the stakes are higher. It's just a lot. And until you're in it or and you've been in other industries, you can't fully appreciate that. And so I, I became who I needed eight years ago when I entered the industry because I came in very arrogantly like most marketers, right with our egos, came in thinking, yeah, I know this. I've been marketing X amount of years. I have this degree and that degree and it clotheslined me. So I became who I needed eight years ago for marketers that needed that additional structure, those pushes, all those things. That's one side of the CMO Academy. The other side of the CMO Academy is built a video academy that's online and accessible to any and everyone. Initially I built it for internal marketers that maybe couldn't do the month to month program, but more attorneys have watched it than marketers. I think that Want to. If maybe they have a marketing assistant and need to know how to manage them better. Need to know the thing. Need to know the things to talk to them about. So if you're interested in either of them, you go to the cmoacademy.com right now I have two videos up there for free. One is how to hire a marketer. Right. And it talks about, you know, if you need a marketing assistant or a CMO and everything in between.
[00:12:28] Speaker B: Oh, nice.
[00:12:29] Speaker A: And then there's also some referral marketing videos. Some referral marketing videos, but it's 63 videos. It is a real live course. That was one of the hardest things I've done. Yeah, yeah. It just took a. It took a while to do. I spilled my guts. I popped open the hood of what we have done at Cooper Hurley Injury lawyers, and also what I've done and just other experiences that I got to bring here to Cooper Hurley and how it applied. And everything is broken up into three parts. Strategy, tactics, and KPIs. People always ask me the how'd you do it? How'd you do that campaign? And I want people to ask the why more, which is the strategy. If you have the strategy. And Kevin, you know this. If you have the strategy, the hows will come, I promise you.
And then of course, KPIs, because how do we measure success?
So, yes, that is a CMO academy in a nutshell.
[00:13:21] Speaker B: Well, that's. That's awesome that people can get access to that. Yeah. Lawyers listening. I mean, I talked to lots of lawyers, clients, prospects, ones that, you know, especially, like some startup firms like. And some firms, they're well funded, but they're forming a new partnership, new brand. They need everything. But they're not necessarily running on fumes either. But they need to figure the marketing out. They need to get a marketing assistant or a marketer or whatever. But I think to some degree, when you're starting out a new firm on your own, you need to have some understanding of marketing. You can't just be completely like, that's not me. I don't care. Like, you need to understand it so that, you know, when the numbers come through, the KPIs, all that stuff, like, what's important to me. I don't think if you're a lawyer, business owner, you need to have some general understanding. It sounds like it'd be a great place for lawyers to. To go get some great information.
Again, not to execute the marketing necessarily, but to just have a better understanding.
[00:14:09] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah, agreed.
[00:14:11] Speaker B: That's awesome. I Love it.
[00:14:12] Speaker A: Thank you.
[00:14:14] Speaker B: So you have the full video library up there and then you have the coaching program for internal marketers. Yeah, if you have marketers and you're, you're, you know, you want to get them some assistance to learn and train and have a budget for them, sounds like a no brainer to get them hooked up there. So I love it. I love it. And strategy, you mentioned strategy. I mean that's one of the things that, you know, we say here is one of our differentiators is strategy before anything.
[00:14:38] Speaker A: Right.
[00:14:38] Speaker B: And, and when I talk to like new law firms that maybe are looking for help, we don't talk about marketing strategies or tactics. It's I need to know every single thing about your firm.
I need to know your numbers, your case values, how many leads you're getting, what's the sources, what are you doing, how many agencies you work with, how are those relationships, how involved were you?
Like was the lawyer just like hands off or are they nagging and overwhelming or where were they at?
And it's like what's all these questions about? You know, it's like we need to understand where you're at, where you've been and where you're going before we tell you we're going to write copy for blogs or whatever the hell. So yeah, strategy is so important and everyone wants to skip to the how the leads.
[00:15:21] Speaker A: Yeah, they want to get to the, to the pretty campaign. They want to see their name and lights. And I get it. You built your company and that's what you want, that's what you deserve. But first, you know why? Why your name and lights? Why are we doing that pretty Facebook campaign? Why? Tell me why and we'll do all the hows you want.
[00:15:39] Speaker B: Yeah, I'm a very impatient person myself. Like you want to get to whatever and it just takes time and filming or editing or whatever. Right. And you know, you just want to kind of get to the result side of things, but it's just the energy you got to put into it. So Cassie, I appreciate you sharing some of the information, especially about your new program. It sounds like there's a wealth of knowledge there. All the firms, most of the firms that are listening are hopefully active in marketing or they have an internal marketer and agencies. So there, there's those dynamics there.
I know also a lot have, you know, either an assistant or a junior person or someone that's just kind of taken that role. If I'm a law lawyer or a firm that has some internal staff that's assisting with Marketing. What's some kind of tips or things to look out for or things that they should, you know, consider that would be helpful to them.
[00:16:28] Speaker A: Yeah. If you are a managing partner and you have a junior level marketer at your firm, I am going to beg you to make sure that they stay educated in the legal marketing world. I talk about this sometimes. I go to conferences a lot, speak at a fair amount of conferences and there won't a lot of marketing conferences and there won't be any marketers in the room. And I get it.
You as a managing partner are not going anywhere. You are going to work there. But invest in your marketers. They will only get better and they will be grateful that you have invested in them. Right. So the CMO Academy, obviously a great option, but send them to the conferences. What podcasts are they listening to? They have to learn both your industry, the legal industry, the injury law industry, if that's what you're in, and then they have to continue to grow as a marketer. So that'd be my number one tip, hands down to the managing partners that may be listening and have a junior level marketer in house.
[00:17:29] Speaker B: That's awesome. I love that tip. Yeah. You know, I go to a lot of the conferences. All the lawyers are there. You don't usually see much of the marketing staff, though. That's a good point.
Yeah. Invest in your folks. I know for, you know, just like you would expect your attorneys to, to be learning and growing and moving from associates into. Yeah. So, yeah, your marketers are super important. I mean, they're the tip of the spear. Right?
Huge. I love it. Well, I mean, Cassidy, we have so many things that we can talk about. I'll probably have you back on the show. I really want to dig into referral marketing and some of the community stuff you guys do over there, but Cassidy's got so much packed in her brain there, I can't, can't fit it all on one episode. So.
Okay, so she will be back.
I will so. Cmoacademy.com yes. LinkedIn. Cassidy Lewis, is there another way people should reach out to you?
[00:18:23] Speaker A: I'll say this. If you have any Virginia injury referrals, send them to Cooper Harley Injury Lawyers. 333-333.
All right.
[00:18:32] Speaker B: I like. All right, she's sending to me and then I'll refer them to her. So I look, I look good however.
[00:18:38] Speaker A: They get to be. I'm a marketer, Kevin. I was going to take advantage of that.
[00:18:42] Speaker B: Let's go, let's go. Yeah, she has a great referral system and I'm excited to talk more about referrals with her next time on the show. Please connect with her. Please reach out. She's got so much information. And get out of the conferences. Get out there and talk to people. Bring your marketers or just send them if you can go and look forward to seeing it. Some of them. So, Cassie, thank you so much. You hang out with me for just a moment. Everyone, thank you so much for tuning in as always. And we'll see you on the next episode.
[00:19:06] Speaker A: Thanks, Kevin.
[00:19:07] Speaker B: See you.
