Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign.
[00:00:18] Speaker B: Most firms survive. The best ones scale.
Welcome to the Managing Partners podcast, where law firm leaders learn to think bigger.
I'm Kevin. Daisy. Let's jump in.
All right, what's up, everybody? We're live here. I got me a fresh coffee, and I got a cool guest with a topic I don't know if we've really covered before, but obviously on the podcast, we're always here talking about entrepreneurship, running a law firm, what that's like, ins and outs of it, the good, the bad, the ugly. And I got Steven on here today to share about his firm, his story, and his background in tax debt. No one likes to hear that.
If you do, you want to hear. You want to have Steven here to probably be on your side.
[00:01:10] Speaker A: Yeah, no one wants to hear from me. No one wants to know that they need to deal with me. But at the same time, I have a lot of relationships with different professionals. Tax professionals, bankruptcy attorneys, family law attorneys. And, you know, they don't necessarily need to see me, but their clients do. And so instead of, you know, listening to their clients complain and not know what to do, they. At least they have someone that they can say, oh, I know the guy for you, and they can send him to me, and I can be the one that has to deal with the IRS and all the complaining and all that stuff.
[00:01:41] Speaker B: That sounds like you're a great resource right there. So, so interesting. I mean, yeah, that's.
I don't think we've had an attorney on the show in your field as deep as you are and specific to it niche, if you will. So I think that's gonna be a cool conversation as it relates to ownership, entrepreneurship, and owners out there listening.
But first, Stephen, I mean, you're in outside of Detroit for everybody listening and just, first tell us your story and how you got into this niche focus and then running your own. Your own show. What. What's the story there?
[00:02:21] Speaker A: Yeah. So, yes, I am outside of Detroit.
I graduated from law School in 2008, which was a interesting time for the country, and especially in Detroit. Things were not pretty financially for anyone in terms of getting the job. So that said, my first five years or so in the legal profession, I was a corporate bankruptcy attorn, which was fit for what was going on.
And what happened was I was representing auto suppliers. Again, being from Detroit, I was representing auto suppliers who were filing for bankruptcy, and they were large auto suppliers. And I wasn't. It wasn't so small. I mean, they were big, and, you know, they would have a lot of Creditors that they needed to pay. And you know, the big ones of course would be gm, Chrysler and Ford. And they had, you know, multimillions of dollars that, that need to be paid back. But they also had like mom and pop vendors of sorts and you know, a whole bunch of things that, that they may need to have paid for. But you know, mom and pop, your everyday kind of community, people who are just out there trying to earn a buck. And you know, for me, you know, a bankruptcy may take a year, especially if you represent the trust afterwards. But I was representing this large supplier and at the end of the day, what inevitably started happening each time I would represent these suppliers would be Ford, Chrysler, GM would get paid in full. And to some extent they had a reason to because it was a secured loan which makes it so that they get paid first, but still they get paid in full. And then you had all these mom and pop vendors who had unsecured claims who would get paid 1 to 2 cents on the, and so at some point I was like, you know, this is all well and good and I'm glad the car companies are getting paid back in full because actually they do a lot for, for our city and our town. That said, did I really want to be working long hours and a year on each bankruptcy just so they could get paid back in full while the mom and pop, you know, vendors got paid basically nothing? And the answer was no. No, I didn't really want to be doing that. So I wanted to be in, in a profession or at least a niche where, where I was seeing the work that I was doing on a daily basis, helping out the, the small businesses, the medium sized businesses. And so I didn't know necessarily what I wanted to do, but ultimately I, I, I found I just kind of fell into, to honestly the tax that niche. I had a friend that was already doing it, so I, I hung out with him and started working with him and he was already, So I found I was able to help mom and pop, you know, businesses and medium sized businesses and individuals. And I could see on a daily basis the changes and the, the effect that was having on people. And so I enjoyed that. It was still kind of in, in the debt industry, you know, meaning like, you know, bankruptcy. I went to this and I was able to see the difference I was going to make. So maybe that story was a little bit long, but I, this is how I got here. This is what I wanted to do. I wanted to help people so I could see them on a daily basis and see it on their face, the changes that I was making. And now I've been here for, for over a decade and it's great.
[00:05:49] Speaker B: That's awesome. No, not, not too long. I think that's a great story. And, you know, I love hearing how, you know, people fall into something and it leads them to something else and then they kind of find. They find their spot. People that just like, come out like, oh, I always knew and I became what I always wanted to be. Like, that's, that's no story. What the heck, you know?
[00:06:12] Speaker A: Right, right, exactly.
[00:06:13] Speaker B: My story was like yours all over the place and, and fell into what I wanted to do.
[00:06:19] Speaker A: So.
[00:06:19] Speaker B: Yeah. That's cool. I appreciate you sharing that.
So do you help? Are you working with folks just in Michigan, just around Detroit, across the country? What does your clientele look like? There's.
[00:06:32] Speaker A: Yeah, across the country. So I do have, you know, clients certainly in Michigan, but I'm able to represent clients nationwide.
As an attorney who, who helps, you know, clients before the irs, you have to be an attorney that is admitted to the, to the state bar in, in one of the states. You don't have to be admitted in, in all of the states, but, you know, just one of the estate states. And so, so the fact that I am. Allows me to represent taxpayers across the country.
[00:07:04] Speaker B: Nice. Okay. I was, that's what I thought, but I wasn't sure I figured it out. So. Any lawyers listening? You need a tax debt relief.
That's right, buddy. Steven here. So I wanted to, you know, so obviously Steven's got his, his own business entrepreneur, just like me, just like everyone else, probably listening. And so, you know, I wanted to, to ask him, you know, just some questions around, you know, what he's seen and running his own business and talking to other business owners that are in these situations. And it's going to happen. I talk to prospects all the time, PI, all kinds of different firms that are in a spot based on economic changes, marketing changes, whatever reasons they've lost the leads or the market share, the referral sources, and they're in a tight spot with capital and they could be in a situation where they, they might be talking to someone like a Steven. So, you know, just what, you know, I don't know what tips that would be, but, you know, what kind of things have you seen out there or things you can share that you've seen? People get themselves into a situation where they might need your help, but what would they do, you know, in that situation? I guess.
[00:08:15] Speaker A: Yeah. So, I mean, there's a Couple different things.
I help, like I said, individuals with income tax debt. So, yeah, if you get yourself in a situation where you're not able to pay your taxes and certainly, you know, entrepreneurs, because they're not getting a W2, they're not getting a paycheck. I mean, that's where most of my clients come from because they're supposed to be making payments on a quarterly basis to the irs. But when it's not automatically taken out of your check, it's hard to do. And especially if cash flow is low or you're not able to pay your bills, you say, hey, I'll figure it out later. And then it comes to April 15th and you're like, I have a bunch of tax that. And I didn't figure it out, but, you know, now I'm stuck. So, you know, you would talk to someone like me, I would get an understanding of where you are financially.
You know, income, expenses, assets. I would understand, you know, how much was owed for, what, years. You know, I talked to the irs. I find out where you are in collections and how far along on the collection side of it you are, whether you're, you know, going to be stuck with, with a bank levy or, or a garnishment, you know, right away. And then I come up with, with a kind of way to move forward for you. I decide, you know, what are the best options for you in terms of resolving this tax debt and how are we going to do it? And there's multiple different ways to do that.
You know, listen, I mean, I, when I'm on the here people on the radio, I listen to sports radio a lot. And even on, you know, sports radio, actually I should say a lot on sports radio. You know, you hear like the Optima taxes and I guess I shouldn't say names theoretically, but, you know, the big, huge tax that, you know, companies that are out there and they're always talking about the offering compromise. And so maybe some of the listeners here have heard of the offering compromise where basically, you know, they say, you know, you can resolve your tax debt for, for just a portion of what you owe. You know, you can resolve it for, for 10% of what you owe. And they'll send out these letters and they'll talk about it on the, on the, their advertising and, you know, is there an offer in compromise where you can pay a portion of what you owe? Sure, it's there, but, but they have no idea whether you actually qualify. You know, you have to qualify for an offering compromise. And they make it out like Everybody qualifies for. So they might say, hey, someone owed $100,000, and we resolved it for $5,000. And that sounds great. And they may be telling the truth because I've done a lot of offering compromises where I've settled large amounts for very little. But most people don't qualify for the offering compromise. Most people still qualify for something. Everyone's going to qualify for something, but, you know, it takes a certain type of situation and circumstance where you actually qualify for that offering compromise. So there's other types of resolutions that are out there, you know, whether it's a monthly payment plan or something else. But the offering compromise isn't the only thing. So when you come to someone like me, I can, you know, review your tax case, find out what's going on, look at your financials and decide what's the best way moving forward.
[00:11:44] Speaker B: That's all. Yeah, so I've actually heard some commercials like that before.
I'm not sure where, but I've seen either on TV or somewhere where, you know, just get a random commercial talking about it. So. But yeah, that's. I've heard that before. I don't have that problem, thank God right now. But I don't remember hearing something like that, you know, pay for 10% of what you owe. And I voted in the past where I'm like, holy crap, I got a few months to get this together and pay it. Not a place you want to be for sure. So, okay, so what are some other things that obviously a lot of things come down prior to which we talk about on the show a lot or recently actually, Tax planning and preparing and quarterly payments and. And tax strategies and, you know, just ways to avoid even, you know, having a call. Stephen? Yeah. So any tips you see there? Is anything you help with on that front or. Yeah, I mean, you're specifically in the tax debt arena, but, you know, what tips or things can you give out there to the. To the audience that's listening that hopefully can avoid some of these situations completely?
[00:12:51] Speaker A: Yeah, so you're right. My expertise is kind of after the fact. Once you got the tax and you need to deal with it, then that said, in terms of, you know, making sure you don't owe, kind of what we talked about is you want to make sure that your payments to the IRS happen automatically and you set up some sort of automation for making those payments on a quarterly basis. Because as I said, when you have a paycheck, you know, it just comes out of your paycheck immediately and without you Having to think about it. So no one's really thinking about it. They just know, like, half my check is going to be gone because I owe a bunch of taxes. But it just comes out and like, I, I can't do anything about it. But when you have a balance or when you have to make payments on your own, you know, it gives you more leeway to be like, I'm just not going to make this one. So what you want to do is you want to set aside a, A, A, you know, bank account or, or something else where, you know, just a certain. Maybe it's a third of what you are going to owe on the income that you brought in, you know, goes into that bank account and then automatically each quarter it's sent out to the irs. And so you don't have to think about it. You don't really put yourself in a position to be able to say, hey, you know, I know I owe these taxes, but I don't really want to pay them. Or I just feel like I can't pay them right now and I'll figure it out later. Just keep it up. So it's automated and just automatic. You just, it's just going to come out. You're not going to think about it. It's going to come out and it's going to get paid to the irs.
[00:14:20] Speaker B: Yeah, that's kind of, that's what I, um. For quarters, like, we'll take out. Take out for taxes and then put, you know, figure out your tax rate. Of course, put that aside. It's in a different bank account, completely separate. And this is held aside because. Yeah, if it's just in your main bank account. And that's the other thing. Like, I, we. I have a lot of bank accounts just to separate the things visually, which is helpful. So I know, hey, this money is set for this and this is what it's for.
And people that run off, like one bank account, which a lot of people do, like all that, you don't know what you can pull from, what you can use, what you can, you can go spend or market with or invest back in your business versus what's my tax liabilities? What's my, you know, other bills that I keep forgetting about each year, like business license and renewals and all this stuff.
I think it's helpful to section those counts off and just be prepared for it.
[00:15:17] Speaker A: Exactly.
[00:15:17] Speaker B: Yeah. You know, you don't want to be calling Stephen people.
[00:15:21] Speaker A: No one wants to talk to me. And, you know, if you're going to avoid it, you shouldn't have to talk to me. But, you know, it's something that, that people need to deal with and sometimes they run into an issue where they can't, they can't do what they were supposed to do, and then they come to me.
[00:15:40] Speaker B: Yeah, that's awesome that you're helping people and you're seeing an impact, which I could. I mean, people are stuck in the situation. I'm sure it's scary for whatever situation they're in for the business or for them personally or both their family, their team.
So definitely a different area of the law that, you know, is obviously out there helping a lot of people day to day dealing with these issues.
What I want to kind of flip over to, you know, you run your own business and, and what's really been, you know, what's really been effective for you and helpful for you as far as, you know, getting yourself out there making a name for yourself, you know, getting clients, you know, for your practice area. Like, what's, what's been successful for you to, to grow your firm.
[00:16:28] Speaker A: Yeah, what's been best for me is really kind of being the expert, you know, putting yourself out there as an authority and then really making relationships with people.
You know, I do a lot where I try to, you know, put myself out there in the media and be quoted and go on podcasts like yours, but, you know, a lot of it's is creating relationships. And so I have a lot of really great relationships with other attorneys, like I said, you know, family law attorneys or a lot of especially bankrupt bankruptcy attorneys who have a lot of clients that do need my help and also other tax professionals, whether it's CPAs or even just taxpayers prepares. Those are the relationships that, that, you know, I enjoy and the relationships that help me bring in more clients because again, those are people that have clients that need my services. And especially like with, with tax professionals, you know, they deal with preparing tax returns, but like, they don't really have any interest in dealing with the IRS itself. So it's kind of like the opposite of what we talked about with me. Whereas I'm not preparing taxes on the other side with dealing with the IRS and dealing with, you know, once you have the tax that, and negotiating with the IRS and coming up with a solution, whereas, you know, tax professionals, like, they're actually not dealing with the IRS at all, except for, you know, interpreting the code and, you know, preparing your taxes or advising you on your taxes and, and making sure, you know, you, you get the best, you know, rate in terms of, you know, how much, you know, what your taxes are, what percentage and making sure that you get the most deductions and, you know, all that good stuff. But they're not actually dealing with the IRS on a one to one basis or, or into any sort of negotiating type capacity, whereas that's what I'm doing. I'm dealing with the IRS and negotiating with them, trying to get the best deal for my clients once the taxes are already owed. So those relationships are important to me and that's really how I get. A lot of my clients are referrals and having good relationships with other professionals and other attorneys.
[00:18:33] Speaker B: Yeah, that's also makes a lot of sense, you know, having those referral sources kind of like the, you know, the mortgage person and the real estate agent, you know, just hand in hand, it sounds like, with you and tax preparation folks. And obviously, you know, people, people during taxes, CPAs, I would assume they have a little insight, hopefully with the client, you know, leading into them having a problem.
And they'll have, you know, probably a lot of good information to share on the situation as well.
So that was awesome. And so in these relationships, I mean, so you work with people around the country and so it sounds like, you know, you've built some relationships and thought leadership in your name for yourself. Not just, you know, in your local area, but it extends out across. Across the country. That's. That's awesome.
[00:19:24] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. You know, it's certainly a little bit easier to create relationships, you know, when you're. It's local because I can, you know, meet you one on one for coffee or for lunch or something. But, you know, with the Internet these days, you know, I can have, you know, quote unquote, virtual coffees with people every single day and over, you know, zoom or whatever it may be, and we can have a pretty substantial relationship just talking one another, seeing each other face to face over the Internet and having great conversations.
[00:19:52] Speaker B: Yeah, it's really. I mean, there's so many good people that I know that are good referral partners of mine and friends, I call them friends for sure. Never met them in person. And so, yeah, yeah, I, I like to and I try to, if I go to conferences or go around to different shows or just nearby for some reason, which is. Just makes it that much cooler. But. But there's some people I've known for years that I've never met in person and have great relationships with, so.
[00:20:18] Speaker A: Yeah, Exactly.
[00:20:19] Speaker B: Oh yeah, 100%. That is the way of the future. Yep. Covid helped us out on that one. So it did.
[00:20:27] Speaker A: It made it different, changed.
[00:20:29] Speaker B: I mean, especially for law firms and lawyers. Of course, this is a old topic, but, you know, it's. It kind of changed how law firms do business.
Forced them into some technology and things that they didn't want to do for some anyway. Yeah. And then I know a lot of virtual firms, they don't have an office, you know, total virtual staff, all work from home. You know, they have a leg up to some degree and cost expenses that other firms might have. So.
[00:20:58] Speaker A: Absolutely.
[00:20:59] Speaker B: Pretty cool. Well, Stephen, what's the best way for anyone listening? Obviously, if they have friends, family or themselves that need your help or maybe they a good referral source. So attorneys out there listening that fear family law, divorce, bankruptcy, Sounds like Steven would be a great referral source for you and vice versa. What's the best way for them to contact you and connect?
[00:21:26] Speaker A: Absolutely. Well, my firm is called, it's called the W Tax Group.
And so that's, you know, you can go to W Tax attorney dot com. That's where my, my firm is. But to really get in touch with me personally, and that's kind of the best way to do it as opposed to kind of going through the company.
Go to Weisberg Tax. My last name is Steven Weisberg is my last name. So W E I S B E R G and you can get in touch with me that way. You can actually get in touch with me directly and not go through the, the gatekeepers here.
Yeah. Give me a call at 248-971-0885. That's 248-971-0885. And then I'm very active on LinkedIn, so you can always shoot me a message there and see what I'm up to in terms of what I'm posting and who I'm talking to and when I'm talking about.
[00:22:21] Speaker B: Yeah, that's awesome. I appreciate that, Sharon. Yeah. So if you need Steven's help or got questions or you know, have a referral, something like that, please reach out to Stephen. And yeah, if you. And also, as always, I could do a email introduction to connect you as well. So just ping me, message me, and we'll get you connected. Yeah.
Yeah. So, well, Steven, anything else you want to share before we wrap it up?
[00:22:47] Speaker A: No, I. That's really all I have to say. I would just say again, on the referral side, people don't want to deal with the IRS professionals attorneys either, so. And to be honest, I don't really want to either, but that's my job. So, so you know, when you don't want to do it and you have clients that are telling you I have all these tax issues and I don't know what to do, send them my way, I'll take care of it. I take the burden off of them and then I take the burden off of you as the referral source, as the attorney or the tax professional. Deal with the irs. Uh, when, when you know, you and your client don't want to, I don't.
[00:23:21] Speaker B: Want to talk to them. You know, every time I get something in the mail, it's like, oh man, what is this? And it's usually like, I'll get these like a change of address ones that they, they just keep. It's like the same, but there's nothing in there. There's no bills. But either way, anyone sees the IRS anything letter, even though you know you're. I know I'm good.
You still have that like moment of, ugh, I gotta open this and see what's.
[00:23:44] Speaker A: Exactly. Exactly.
[00:23:46] Speaker B: I'll owe like 20 bucks for like over investing in my HSA or something stupid like that, but it's always something. Yep. Gotta stay on your toes out there, people.
Today's episode is brought to you by Answering Legal. Now, I just switched my company array digital over to Answering Legal and it's made my life a whole lot easier. If I can't get to the phone, their 247 virtual receptionist take the call and take them through a full intake process so we never miss new business again. Now, Answering Legal has been at this for more than a decade and they specialize in answering phone calls for law firms like yours. They even have a brand new easy to use app and they integrate with all the top Legal softwares and platforms. So for my listeners today, we actually have a special deal of a 400 minute free trial offer of Answering Legal services that you can try out by going to answeringlegal.com array. You can also call 631-437-4803 and use special code Daisy. That's my last name. D A I S E Y. So go check them out and let's get back to the show.
[00:25:07] Speaker A: Yeah, it's very difficult to get in touch with these, with the irs, especially now if you've seen in the news, you know they're firing staff.
There's a, there's a plan in place to fire half of the irs, which maybe theoretically some people sounds good.
The problem is, you know, you're still going to owe the money. You're still going to get notices in the mail because that's all automated. And they're going to tell you that they're going to be, you know, levying your bank account or garnishing wages or whatever it may be. And then you're not going to get in touch with anyone because half the staff is gone. You know, that's going to be a problem. So you're going to need my help more so than, than ever before, unfortunately, for, for everyone, especially for taxpayers who would like to just get it done themselves. But it's going to be difficult to get in touch with someone and it's a hard situation.
[00:25:56] Speaker B: That's a good point. Actually, you know, sort of brought that up early in the conversation, but that's, I appreciate you sharing that. But, yeah, so, yeah, stay posted and, and see how this is going to shake out with, you know, Elon and Doge and all the stuff they're going to be cutting.
Maybe Stephen can, Stephen can update us on that. Follow him on LinkedIn. I'm sure he'll be sharing plenty about it.
[00:26:18] Speaker A: Yeah, check me out on LinkedIn. I've been reporting on that for, you know, the last month or so, you know, every kind of week or every few days sometimes. And I've got some new news from Doge and Elon Musk and everybody, and just how that's gonna, what's happening and how that's gonna affect people with tax issues.
[00:26:35] Speaker B: Dude, love it. Love to hear more about that. So I'll be following you as well. So. All right, Stephen, thank you so much, man, for joining us. Thanks for sharing about your firm and your journey as an entrepreneur and your passion in tax debt and talking to the irs.
We love it. So I appreciate you sharing on the show today. And everyone, if you need us help, please connect and we'll see you on the next episode.
