Designing a Personal Injury Firm Around Your Life

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Something just clicked for me. I was like, you know what? You're right. I need a new boss. It wasn't any fault of his, but, you know, I knew I wanted to be in personal injury. I knew that that was something that was important to me. I knew it fit my personality best. But the delayed gratification that we see in personal injury cases, I mean, that's part and parcel with farming. You don't know when you plant a crop, how the year's gonna go, how the season's gon. [00:00:38] Speaker B: Most firms survive. The best ones scale. Welcome to the Managing Partners Podcast, where law firm leaders learn to think bigger. I'm Kevin. Daisy. Let's jump in. Hello. Hello. What's up, everyone? Kevin here we are recording. So thanks for tuning in to another episode of the Managing Partners podcast. Hope you like and subscribe, as we'll be coming out with these every single week, and we have quite a backlog. So we got some amazing guests lined up that we've just recorded with and on the calendar as well, so. But today, I have a good friend of mine, I call him a friend first. He's also a client. He's also a member of our mastermind, the Managing Partners Mastermind. Just a good sport, great law firm owner, and has some pretty unique things that we'll kind of share today and cover what he does with personal life and the firm and how he's. He's kind of mixed this two together, too, so. Bryce McPartland, welcome to the show. [00:01:41] Speaker A: Hey, thanks, Kevin. Happy to be here and looking forward to talking about things with you today. [00:01:47] Speaker B: Yeah, you know, it took a while to get Bryce on the show. Like, he just. He didn't want to come on, and we've convinced him and he should be here. You know, he's got a great firm. He's grown. He's constantly growing and learning. He's a strong contributor in our mastermind, but he's also like a sponge. Like, he listens to folks in the group and shares a great member and participant in any setting, any group. So, again, excited to have Bryce here to share what he's doing, what he's about. But, Bryce, maybe first, you know, tell us a little bit about, you know, kind of your. Your journey to becoming an attorney, but opening up your. Your own firm. And then we'll kind of dig into some of the ins and outs of starting a firm and. And what you've gone through and. And where you're at. [00:02:37] Speaker A: Sure. I mean, at least background wise, I always think, you know, like, when you Go to law school, you run into a lot of people who, either their family or attorneys or, you know, they've got aunts, uncles, you know, parents, whatever, brothers, sisters. That wasn't really the case for me. I did have one uncle who'd been. Who is an attorney, runs a super successful practice, but my exposure to it was relatively little. You know, you get out of college, you got the history degree, there's not a history firm to go work for. And so it's like, all right, well, you know, what's the next thing? And, you know, it turns into law school. So that was. I mean, heck, that was almost like a quarter of a century ago that we're, you know, we're talking about making those decisions, which is. Is wild to think about, you know, these days. [00:03:23] Speaker B: So you're not in your 30s? [00:03:27] Speaker A: I wish. No, man, I'm pushing 50. So, you know, it's been a wild ride, you know, so we'll see how much further I can make it. But yeah, anyway, you know, went to law school. Thought I'd wanted to go back east first. So got admitted in Pennsylvania, moved back to Washington state, where I was from, to move the family back. Got offered a job in Washington and never ended up using my bar admission in Pennsylvania, although I do have a very nice certificate that sits on my wall. So, yeah, I got admitted in Washington, started working for a small sort of family firm down in the south central Washington place called the Tri Cities. Did that for a couple of years before getting in with an exclusively personal injury firm with quite a few offices. And that, that was actually a really formative experience for me because it shows us on some level what's possible, you know, certainly showed me what was possible in terms of branching out, such that, you know, we're casting our net a little bit wider to, you know, acquire the kinds of clients that we wanted, serve, work on the kinds of cases that we want to work on. And so after about five years of that, my boss, one day he comes into me and he says, he says, you know, Bryce, I know you know how to do these cases, but sometimes you just gotta do what your boss tells you. And I thought it just. Something just clicked for me. It just clicked. I was like. I was like, you know what? You're right. I need a new boss. It wasn't any fault of his, but, you know, it was kind of funny. But, you know, in. In this line of work, a lot of times we do kind of. In any case that we're handling, we are kind of out there on A limb. We're making decisions. And none of that was really foreign to me. You know, so like my dad owned his own farm, my uncle owned his own farm. So there was a background in working for yourself that I was familiar with. The other angle to it was that, you know, I knew I wanted to be in personal injury. I knew that that was something that was important to me. I knew it fit my personality best. But the delayed gratification that we see in personal injury cases, I mean, that's part and parcel with farming. You know, you don't, you don't know when you plant a crop, you know, how the, how the year is going to go, how the season's going to go. And so, you know, in personal injury case, same same sort of thing, you [00:05:49] Speaker B: have an idea all the things that you, you know, historically have worked well. [00:05:53] Speaker A: Yeah, you got an idea that, you know the case is going to work out. But you know, there's twists and turns to any personal injury cases. You're working your way through it. [00:06:01] Speaker B: Well, for everyone listening to, just so you, you know, if you're want to go check them out, it's mickpartlandlaw.com this is his website, based out of Washington. How many offices do you have now? [00:06:11] Speaker A: So, yes, our headquarters is in Moses Lake, Washington, and then we've got a branch office in Spokane. And we're actually kind of funny, earlier this week we toured and are making an offer on another property, you know, in back in that Tri Cities area where I started. So that. And then we also practice in Idaho. [00:06:31] Speaker B: Yeah, so that's also kind of a recent thing. Yep. Expanded out to Idaho. So growing, expanding. More offices. Yeah. If you don't know Washington, I didn't really understand the layout of Washington either when we first met, when I first met Bryce. But yeah, it's kind of a rural kind of, let's say, was it the east side of the state? [00:06:55] Speaker A: Right. So a lot of people think Evergreen State, they think Seattle, you know, stuff like that. The Cascade Mountains end up creating sort of a pretty good barrier. So, you know, west side, east side, east side. Where I grew up, I mean, most of the cities didn't really exist or didn't exist in any meaningful, you know, since until the Grand Coulee Dam was put in. So there's all network of canals and, and whatnot that run through there. And Moses Lake, where our headquarters is, I mean, I remember when I was a kid, it was 10,000 people. And I'll bet you, you know, when my dad first moved to the area, in the 50s, probably a few thousand, maybe, you know, and now it's. Now it's kind of a hub for the area. [00:07:38] Speaker B: Nice. So. And here's the other cool thing with Bryce, and we'll get into some of the business stuff. He lives where he wants to live. Right. And so you frequent Washington. You run your practice mostly from, I guess, remote, but, yeah, maybe give us a little bit of a. A glimpse of what that's like. [00:07:55] Speaker A: We do. We live in Montana. It's awesome. It's America. The way you remember it, it's kind of the way to describe it. But, yeah, I mean, Montana's great. We couldn't do it. I couldn't do it without the team of people that I have behind me. But, you know, it really was. It was a lifestyle decision, you know. You know, in about 20, 21, I'm looking around and I'm just talking to the wife about, you know, where we want to raise our kids and. And, you know, what. What things are looking like for us. And. And the fact of the matter is, is, you know, we made the decision to move anticipating that there could be a hit to our business. We've actually never experienced that. And in fact, our. Our firm productivity, our firm, you know, when we think about revenue, you know, all that's grown year over year, you know, consistently, even through RVing away. I probably spend 10 to 12 days, you know, a month in Washington, you know, and. And more as needed. You know, whether there's a trial or depositions or whatever, I. I still like to do a lot of the things in person. But, yeah, I mean, we live. I live seven hours away from my office. It's not really flyable. You know, at least flying is kind of a wash relative to driving. So, you know, do get a lot of windshield time, a lot of podcast time, and, you know. So I'll listen to this then? [00:09:18] Speaker B: Yeah, you want to listen to this episode for sure. So, yeah. You know, I just think it's good for others to hear that, that, you know, you can design your firm, you know, to be what you want, and it doesn't have to be a traditional model, you know, so. [00:09:32] Speaker A: For sure. I mean, you know, I think that's. I think one of the things that's ultimately most important for any law firm owner, but even any attorney or, you know, some attorney who's contemplating, you know, becoming a law firm owner is. Is being curious about the different, you know, modalities that there are that are available to you to help facilitate your practice. I mean, it. It would be, it might be different if I had a docket that I was responsible for on a weekly basis. You know, that might be more challenging. But even a lot of that, you know, these days can often be handled by zoom or, you know, remotely. [00:10:05] Speaker B: Yeah, I was selling Bryce before we, we started recording. If you watch this show on video version, not just audio, but I'll be all, I have some Airbnb properties. Sometimes I need to go visit those to check on them, or sometimes I just want to go hang out at one of them. But I do this, I do this recording or show wherever I'm at. So I could be at a conference and hotel room. I could be at an Airbnb property. I don't even go to my office. We're probably going to get rid of our office for Ray Digital and, and everything like that because we just don't go. [00:10:40] Speaker A: It's kind of, you know, funny I mentioned because, like, I mean, there is that and there is that trend and, and I would say, you know, kind of going back to this whole idea about what, you know, law firm owners can or should expect. I mean, I think depending on the area that you're in, you know, you can get away with, you know, maybe not having that brick and mortar office. We do now. We, you know, and all our offices or are brick and mortar, there are the kind of places where, you know, clients can stop by. But some of that's, you know, really, I think it's regionally oriented. You know, like if you're in Seattle, it doesn't make, you know, nearly as much difference, for instance, to have your, to have a place that you actually have to go. You know, you're just, you're, it's all about Internet searchability. And I think that's true even, even in eastern Washington and in all the places that we serve. But there is some retail value, in fact, a lot of retail value that we get out of our buildings because, you know, we do make, oh, yeah, in really nice spots. [00:11:35] Speaker B: I, I, I'm a strong believer in still brick and mortar. It depends, I think, on your business, what your business is. Sure. But one, you get, signage you get, again, depends on where you're positioned and located. And of course, Google business profile and online presence. You know, a lot of these, Google specifically, if you just have a fake office or, you know, you can't do a P.O. box, you can't, you can do like a search area listing, but it doesn't get the results of a physical location. So there's definitely strategy. There for sure. Yep. [00:12:08] Speaker A: And I think that picking that strategically, you know, makes a difference, you know, like when. So again, our main office being in Moses Lake, the competition relative to what we do is. Is not all that stringent. Spokane, on the other hand, super competitive, heavy saturation of lawyers. When we had our office downtown, it was really difficult to stand out. When we moved it out, you know, probably about five miles south, still in the city, you know, but now all of a sudden, that red dot comes up on that Google map search, you know. And so in terms of positioning our office for searchability, you know, we've really made an effort to identify that. So our next space actually is also sort of, you know, it's still in a reasonably sized city, but it's kind of on the periphery. [00:12:54] Speaker B: Yeah. I recommend this to law firms when I talk to them all the time that are reaching out to us or talking to us about marketing. And it's. I kind of. I use you as an example a lot of times, because when we started with Bryce, because again, he's a client, we got him results. He had zero traffic, zero presence online pretty much. And we got his results were very quick because of one, the location he's at, he's kind of in a. Not a major metropolitan. He's kind of like a submarket. But there's a lot of opportunity in some of these markets. Everyone wants to be like Atlanta, and like, I want to be downtown Atlanta, like, or Dallas or Naaman market. And there's a lot of opportunity to just get outside of those markets, um, especially for your office location. So I. I think it's an advantage, you know, for folks that are like, well, I don't have quite the budget. I can't compete. Look at these submarkets, smaller markets. [00:13:52] Speaker A: I think, you know, the other thing, I don't know, you know, you forget what it's like to be a kid, you know, on some level. [00:14:01] Speaker B: But. [00:14:01] Speaker A: But, you know, it's just a fact that, you know, some people, they want to be in the bigger, you know, faster moving city. And. And the reality. And know, it has been a challenge for us, you know, from a recruiting perspective. Right. Like, hey, you know, moved above this lake, and, you know, people are like, thanks, but no thanks. You know, we like what. We like you. We like what you're doing. But, you know, but. But I will say I just think it's a, you know, on so many levels, it's sort of a missed opportunity for these folks because, you know, I'd put at the end of the day, you know what they're earning, you know what we're earning against darn near anybody. You know, just brass tax and, and so it's like, you know, what kind of a practice do you want to create? What kind of lifestyle do you want to create? You know, like, I think about it, I mean, maybe, maybe it's true, you know, where you are too. I've only been in like, you know, D.C. area gridlock once, you know, but I know it's awful in spot in Seattle, you know, places like Moses Lake, places like Spokane, you know, for the most part you're talking about 10, 15 minute commutes tops. [00:14:57] Speaker B: Virginia has a lot of areas like that. We have mountains, but there's lots other smaller markets throughout the state that, that do very well because we have, I have a lot of clients in, in the Virginia area. But every state has these opportunities. I think, you know, just something to think about when you're setting up your firm, choosing to get an office or if you're starting a firm or if you're just having a struggle and maybe it's time to make a change. You know, Price moved the office from downtown to the outskirts and has had more success. So, you know, think about, you know, what your strategy is right now. Talk to your marketing teams, but you can also kind of do some research on Google to like, look at, hey, what, what areas would make sense for an office. You know, we do research like that for clients all the time versus them going, hey, I like this space. Like, let us give you some areas that you should consider then try to find office space, you know. [00:15:44] Speaker A: You know, as we've shopped different locations, we've had that conversation, you know, with the folks on the team, said, hey, you know, what would this look like? You know, are there advantages, disadvantages to being here? And yeah, like I say, I think trying to be creative about, you know, how you want to present yourself, you know, and by the way, so a lot of times client, your clients don't want to go downtown, you know, I mean, yeah, like, like, you know, if [00:16:11] Speaker B: I take driving downtown around here, like, [00:16:14] Speaker A: I'm like, ah, park parking's a pain. You know, there's all sorts of infrastructure issues. Like, you know, and I can't tell you how many people say, you know, like they really appreciate the opportunity, you know, they don't have to pay for parking, obviously, you know, those sorts of things. And it's just easier and easier out. So, you know, little, little things like that, you know, you can remove the barriers to people reaching Out. [00:16:38] Speaker B: I agree. Every time. My wife's like, hey, let's go, maybe have dinner in downtown Norfolk tonight. And I'm like, yeah, I like my little area. You know, we can pop in, pop home. I can drive the golf cart, whatever. But, yeah, this is definitely a, you know, a barrier there. You know, traffic, time commitment. [00:17:02] Speaker A: Sure. [00:17:02] Speaker B: Things like that. So. Yeah, good. Good point. So back to the business side of things. So personal injury, that's all you focus on. What has been, I guess, what, some of the challenges, maybe some mistakes or things that you feel like you could have done differently, better. You know, maybe they're about to start. Maybe they're. They had the same encounter with their boss, and they're like, all right, it's time to get to my own thing. [00:17:23] Speaker A: Where do I begin? I mean, like, you know, it's just a fact that, like, you know, I. I always think, like, it's so important to stay curious about what it is you're doing. And. And if you're. I mean, it could almost be debilitating, right? Because, you know, it's like. It's like, oh, man, I can't believe I did all these things, you know, so incorrectly way back when. You know, I do think, like, if you're just committed to sort of this incremental improvement, joining organizations where you can learn things. You know, I think about it like, you know, we've got a particular organization we're involved with for our trucking practice. And, you know, if I think about the way I thought about trucking cases 20 years ago versus today, not the same thing. And. And you'd almost think like, you know, I couldn't imagine have handled, you know, things in that fashion way, you know, even way back when, and certainly wouldn't do that today, you know, concrete mistakes. Still learning. Still learning a lot about management and a lot about people. You know, I think about it like, that's. People are hard. Yeah. You know, and. And, you know, but we invest in that, too. You know, I'm on. I'm on, you know, at least for sure. My second business coach, we just signed with one another, you know. You know, great organization. It sounds like out of New Orleans. [00:18:42] Speaker B: That. [00:18:42] Speaker A: I mean, that's another thing like. Like, you know, you're not beholden to your local community. Right. You know, there's. There's all sorts of resources sort of across the nation, you know, but I think about it like, you know, we run through attorneys, we run through staff and. And turnover in. In law firms. I mean, it's just part of It. And you try to bring in people, you know, maybe you try to bring in some fresh perspectives from fresh ideas, but the fact is, like, you know, maybe those people aren't really a good fit for legal practice. I mean, because there is just, you know, there are times when it can be pretty chill and there are times when it can be pretty intense, you know, and that's just a fact. So. So trying to identify. I think that's probably been, you know, one of the biggest challenges is, is people. We've got a great team right now, a lot of people who've been with us for quite a few years, my longest term, so I. Our office has been open for 14, and I've got our top. My top assistant has been with us for over 10 years now. 10 and a half years. [00:19:41] Speaker B: Awesome. That's a huge accomplishment. Yeah. [00:19:44] Speaker A: Yeah. So, I mean, I think that sort of longevity, you know, it's just something like I say, you can improve on, you know, in terms of how you're. How you're working with folks. [00:19:53] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, people are always going to be the biggest and hardest part of your business and one that you can't completely control, no matter what. You know what I mean? [00:20:01] Speaker A: So it's a. [00:20:02] Speaker B: Just knowing that will help you, right? [00:20:05] Speaker A: Well, it's. It's that, you know, but. But then, like, when we think about it from a building your brand perspective, right? Like, every single client who comes into your office is a walking, talking billboard either for or against your firm. And that's, you know, that's a conversation we have often. So. So trying to find the people who facilitate that, who identify with your core values, who, you know, and it's probably about seven or eight years ago, I came up with those, you know, just sitting on a plane, I was like, you know, who are we going to be? And so trying to hire and retain, you know, you don't say hire and fire. You hire and retain to your core values, I think is really key. [00:20:41] Speaker B: I love that I talk about core values and culture and stuff a lot on here. And that's another thing, too. Like, you don't, you know, you might have started your firm, you might not have core values. You might not have those things. Not everyone starts with those things. I didn't know about core values until 10 years into my business, so it's never too late. [00:20:57] Speaker A: I didn't even think, you know, you'd hear it. You read the books, you watch a podcast, and it's like, you know, and you think, well, that's not really, you Know how, How important is it really? [00:21:08] Speaker B: Who's gonna care? Who's really gonna care? [00:21:10] Speaker A: Yeah, it's actually really important because especially when you can tie your conversations with your staff to those core values, you know, like, are we handling this? You know, for example, for us, it's, you know, creativity, curiosity, consistency, and courageousness, you know, so in our handling of this particular client's case, you know, or this element of this client's case, are we exhibiting, you know, one or more core values? [00:21:37] Speaker B: Yeah, it makes it super easy because, you know, we. Transparency is a big one, however. They're all big, but transparency is like the, The. The hardest one, I believe, for anybody. But, you know, you just have a conversation with someone on our team, like, yeah, yeah, yeah. And they're like, okay, well, do you think we should tell them that? And they're like, hashtag transparency, you know, like, like, yep, okay. But sometimes, you know, you have to, you know, pull back on those and bring them up. But no, super important. And I think. But people are always going to be the hard one and the one that's going to be difficult. It's. Your best person has a family issue and now they. They have to leave. Or, you know, we've had folks in the military where they're like, well, we have to relocate. Doesn't matter now because we're remote. But those are things we used to have to deal with. And for a law firm, that's a physical location. You can't control what's going to happen in someone's life or whether they change their mind. But you need to work on the best to have structure in place, core values, and do the best you can to build the best culture and control it as much as you can. But it's never in your full control. They could leave and go start their own firm. Right. Just because they're that good. [00:22:53] Speaker A: You know, there's a. I, I think that. Trying to keep things. And I, I do think this is why personal injury, you know, for us, really works. They're. They're. Every case is that little bit different. Every client's that little bit different. Keeps things fresh, keeps us on our toes. And so that keeps the work interesting also for, you know, the people who, who work at the office. [00:23:17] Speaker B: Yeah, that's a good point. You know, if it's super, super boring and repetitive, you know, it's hard to stay interested and for, for your folks to. To want to be engaged with. But, yeah, personal injuries, always going to be interesting, I bet. So. Yeah, well, that's great. That you have those things in place and then, you know, I know Lex Lee, she was just in our mastermind, and she does more on the, you know, the people side and. Right. Understanding your people and doing, you know, the predictive. What behavioral index. [00:23:52] Speaker A: Well, I'll give her a quick plug too, because, you know, we just. We took all of our. Our personality, you know, tests the other day, and it was kind of interesting because, you know, there's the four quadrants we actually have. Everybody's pinned into two. Two as far as I can tell, polar opposite quadrants, and we're actually missing two. So trying to bring in folks who do fit in those other, you know, locations to try and smooth over, you know, whatever friction there might be as a result of missing those two. You do you get a report as to how, like, this person can engage with this person? You know, I thought it was. I thought it was interesting. In fact, one of the people who's a team lead, you know, she's got a staff member who, you know, sometimes, like I say, it's just. It's always, you know, people are. You have different personalities. Nothing wrong with the. With either of them. But when I sent her her personality test and the other person's personality test, I was like, hey, does any of this sound familiar to you? She's like, oh, my God, like, all of it, you know, and so. But. But, you know, coming back to it, like, how can we do better? How? You know, it's an investment, but it's an investment that we're happy to make because, you know, ideally it makes everybody who's working for us happier. It make, you know, which ultimately makes whatever law firm owner, you know, is listening to this sort of thing, you know, it's like. It's like that's. That's the goal. You know, you want people to be able to. To operate largely independently, and they need to be comfortable doing so. And if there's friction at those lower levels, that means, you know, you're not. You're not operating at your optimal level either. [00:25:25] Speaker B: Yeah. And I think, you know, Lexley Overton. Anyone listening? Mind Over Law. I believe it's the name of her company. But, yeah, great. She came and spoke to the mastermind and did live exercises for us, and we all did our. The personality test, and it was pretty cool to see. But I think, you know, the biggest thing with a lot of this, like, or emotional intelligence. Great book. You can. You can pick up too. But I think it's awareness. So if you don't know how your People act or interact or like to be interacted with, you're just going to force your own way. And if your people that work together have no idea, they're just frustrated. But when you can show them, hey, here's how this other person acts and, and responds, and here's what they like and don't like and what their, their superpower is, and then that you show them that they're like, oh, well, that makes more sense. So it brings awareness to where they may have go, okay, well, now I understand how they're wired. I can make some adjustments maybe on my side. I think it's not an overnight thing because I think to kind of keep that top of mind is going to be hard, but that's probably what, you know, bring someone like her in, integrate it into your business, it's going to make everyone there more happy and understanding, and I think it'll definitely improve the culture and the longevity, the longevity of those folks. [00:26:43] Speaker A: A lot of times as attorneys, you know, we feel like, well, we got the education, we've kind of been through the ropes and some, you know, sometimes, you know, whether it's court rules, whether, you know, processes or whatever, sometimes there just are ways, you know, that it has to be, you know, but. But that's a relatively small fraction. I actually think about the practice and, and I always tell our staff, like, look, I want feedback because, you know, I can impose rules till the cows come home from sort of top down, but that doesn't necessarily translate to the conversation that you're having boots on the ground either with each other, with clients. And so, you know, it's gotta be this, you know, interactive process, you know, between you and your staff, you know, for sure. [00:27:27] Speaker B: One thing that we've just been doing, and credit to my business partner who decided to do this, but anonymous surveys. Now I have over 60 people Anonymous surveys after different things. So we have a couple of meet, company meeting, that's like a half a day, send out a survey, and we get tons of feedback. Hey, we didn't like this. You know, there wasn't enough breaks. The speaker was, you know, blah, blah, blah. And we did this, like, we just took everyone to Chicago for half a week, did a survey, and we get a ton of feedback, but it's some brutal feedback and something like, hey, we changed all these things with career paths and positions. Here's what we didn't like about it. And maternity leave, tons, you know, of questions and issues. So we roll things out and then we get, we. We do these anonymous surveys. And like we respond to those. And then my business partner put out like six videos. Like yesterday was like, here's how we're handling this. Here's how we're handling this. We heard you. And the response was like, thank you so much for like actually looking at this and then responding to it. So anyone listening? If you have two people or a hundred, I was really suggest anonymous surveys because you'll probably learn a lot more about what your A players may be. They might leave soon or have some concern with that they're not going to speak up about, you know, otherwise. So I would definitely think about doing that for anybody listening. Again, if you have two people, you could still do anonymous and be like, I'm not sure who, who said this, [00:28:54] Speaker A: but there, there was a hilarious. I, I don't know, maybe my, my X speed is anticipating this conversation because I did see a hilarious meme the other day. It was like the manager looking at you the day after everybody gave the anonymous survey. You know, I'm looking at kind of side eyes. Yeah, [00:29:14] Speaker B: yeah, I mean it's, it's anonymous. I mean we actually had two employees throw their name in there, be like, screw it, this is me and this is what I think. And we, we gave them public kudos for doing so. It's not, you know, supposed to be anonymous, but so yeah, we, it's worked out really well and it's, it's helped us make changes with more informed information versus us from the top down going, hey, I think this is the best. And you know, and we have management meetings with managers so we, we don't do anything in a, in a silo anyway. But still the managers don't necessarily know best. They, they think they know best for their people and then, then we find out anonymously what they really wanted. So, you know, some things were like, some things are not going to change just because they said, but sure, you [00:30:00] Speaker A: know, but it's a curiosity to engage your staff. I mean, I think that's, that's really the big takeaway because, you know, and I, I can't say I'm perfect at it these days at all, but I know when I started I wasn't the slightest bit interested, you know, and, and you know, I don't know that any of the people I was working with, you know, way back in the day, 20 years ago, you know, or even still alive. But you know, if I think about, you know, my interactions with them, I was, I could have been right and at the same time just been wrong entirely in terms of the way that I handled it. [00:30:34] Speaker B: Sure, yeah, yeah. [00:30:35] Speaker A: I mean, you know, I think when [00:30:36] Speaker B: you're starting, when you're starting a business, you're kind of like scrappy and you're trying to do what you can just to get things going. And so it's, I think you can easily fall into, like, hey, you should be happy just to be here. Let's roll, let's run. And it's hard to be like, let me think about what they think and you know, what they want. And so, you know, it's, this is different. If you're in the position where you get to start and have all these things, then you, you probably have some capital set aside, you have breathing room. [00:31:04] Speaker A: Sure. [00:31:04] Speaker B: I mean, that's, that's great if you're in that situation, but it's just not most, it's great. [00:31:10] Speaker A: But, but I, I will say too, like, you know, when I started my office, I mentioned, you know, the circumstances under which I started it, you know, at least in terms of my interaction. But I walked, I walked out, you know, had a solid like, you know, low six figure salary. I had two kids in private school. I think at the time. Yeah, we would have all four of our kids. You know, my wife worked sort of part time, you know, she was a nurse. And you're just sitting there like, how are we going to make this work? You know, on some level, you know, but, but I, I always tell people like, you know, shoot your shot, you know, like, like, don't wait till it's the perfect time. Don't wait till it's the right time. You know, what I did is, you know, I had a little bit of money, bought a laptop and, but then I, I actually negotiated free rent and I told, I told my wife, I was like, I think we got about 90, 120 days, you know, and so, and, and that was, so this is back in 2012, and I'm like, well, I want to do personal injury. Well, 90 to 120 days in personal injury is not, that is not a feasible realistic outlook, you know, and so at all. And so the, you know, the fact of the matter is what we did is we start saying, hey, this is what I want to do, you know, and, and advertising that way, going out to lunches with other attorneys saying, hey, these are the things that are, that interest me that I want to work on, by the way, to keep the doors open. You got any overflow work, you got to, you know, like I remember, you know, I did a trial on a, it was a, it was a, it was on the conflict docket for, you know, the local core. And so the, and it was just a public defense thing. It was a criminal thing. And I'd actually, I'd done a lot of criminal defense beforehand, you know, but. But that ended up getting in the newspaper. Right? And so you can develop some, you know, some publicity, some notoriety just from doing some of the other stuff. Some of your best, you know, your best referral, some of your best reviews, you know, if we're thinking about like Google reviews, actually come from people who maybe you didn't even take their case, but you gave them some time to air out, you know, some of their things, help them talk through it. And so the, the way that you, you know, you ultimately build your practice, just because, you know, you can't get into exactly what you want to do, it doesn't mean that, that you can't, you can't work towards that. [00:33:26] Speaker B: Right. [00:33:26] Speaker A: And today, today, I mean, you know, we do nothing but personal injury, you know, of, of the sorts that we want to do. And even that recently has gotten significantly more selective. You know, it's just, just a fact that, you know, but I couldn't imagine, like, you know, my, my goals when I started were so much more modest. And the fact is like, my, like, if I even think about, like, you know, where I thought, like, all right, well, if I can make this amount of money, then I'll, you know, be okay or whatever. And I mean, I don't even know that that would cover our overhead, maybe like two weeks of overhead, you know, now. [00:34:05] Speaker B: Yeah, well, it's that, you know, you itemize, you, you focus even more as you, as you go what we don't want and what doesn't make sense, but now you're, you're in a place that you can afford to do that. So, yeah, that's a good lesson for anyone, you know, listening that wants to just go in and niche immediately into like super hyper niche. I only want. This might not be realistic. You know, what, what can you do [00:34:29] Speaker A: to get there if you got extraordinary resources? You know, we had, we had relatively nothing, you know, all things considered. And, and, and like I say, looking back, couldn't even imagine, you know, but, but some of that is again, you know, it's just, you know, there's that whole thing, you miss 100 of the shots you don't take. And if it didn't work out, especially as lawyers, like, all right, so it didn't work out. Now you maybe go back to what you were doing, you know, like, you're. You're still going to have an income of some sort. [00:34:59] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. Everyone out there is trying to do their thing and find their. Their niche and. But, yeah, it's never going to be a perfect time. You know, you can't just wait forever. Just got. You got to jump at some point. You know, you know what you're good at, you know what you want to do and can do. Just be smart. Have relationships, referral partners. People will help you. And there's what Bryce said, too. Like, there's so many resources out there. Groups, podcasts, you know, there's so many things you can do now. Facebook groups that'll just help you post on there, ask questions. [00:35:32] Speaker A: And I mean, you know, when I think about. So, like, our. Our practice is in this super, you know, re. Like, you can't even consider it like a regional city. Spokane's a lot bigger place, you know, but. And at the same time, like, you know, we've worked with, you know, attorneys all across the country. You know, we've worked, you know, through, you know, some of. Some of the vendors that we work with. I mean, you know, you guys are in Virginia, you know, like. Like, we got, you know, our New Orleans business coach. We've got our, you know, our Atlanta accountants. Like, I mean, like, there's. [00:36:03] Speaker B: We have the same accountants, don't we? [00:36:05] Speaker A: We do. We do King of Kings. [00:36:07] Speaker B: The plug for King of Kings. [00:36:09] Speaker A: So. So, you know, but there's this. There. There is. If you can stay curious about, you know, your practice. Like, yeah, you can have it as small and local and regional as you want, but you can also, you know, branch out and try and figure out another way, too. And there's. Those resources are out there. [00:36:27] Speaker B: They are. And I think, you know, you just get. Get out of your office. I mean, you can do this online, too. You know, again, we have the Mastermind group. That means once a month, and we got attorneys from all over the country. It's all just based on a Zoom meeting. But. But, yeah, there's conferences. You get out and just go meet people, and attorneys will try to help you out. All from all over the country. They just want to be helpful and, you know, be a resource. So for sure. [00:36:53] Speaker A: I mean, I. I think that's a big takeaway. And it. It's true in the personal injury space, too. Get out from behind your desk, you know, get out from behind your desk. Like, and even, you know, this works out, you know, obviously, for this sort of podcast and. And Zoom is Like, there's some, there's certainly some efficiency value to it, but like, you know, when you do a zoom deposition, you click on when it's time and you click off when it's not, you know, but you're not building a relationship with opposing counsel. And, you know, we've made, just made a lot of money over the years, you know, based on those relationships. I mean, you have to have your case for sure, you know, but, you know, how that person feels about interacting with you is also, you know, at least a component part. You know, you know, if you are in that personal injury space, like I think about, we had a case a few years back, and I mean, this, this has been true on, on multiple occasions, but one in particular where, you know, we, we get the facts from the collision report from the client, but then, you know, go out and drive the route and we actually end up. I'm just like, where is this stop sign? Where is this thing coming up? And we ended up with a, a good size roadway design case out of it for no other reason than, than. But you, but you don't see that if you're sitting at your desk and, and you don't get a flavor for what the other driver. And, and when I say the other driver, I'm talking about the defendant, right? The person who's ostensibly being sued. What are they seeing? What are they feeling? What are they experiencing as they're driving down the road? You don't, you can't get that from your Google, you know, Google Earth or Google Maps. [00:38:25] Speaker B: Yeah, Street View. Yeah, Street View. Yeah, that's good. And I like that. It's a good tip. A lot of good discussions here today, Bryce. We could just keep talking as usual, but maybe we'll do some more episodes here in the future too, so. But I appreciate you coming on the show. Lots of great things to share for anyone listening. You know, Bryce, what he's done with this firm, designed the way he's want, you know, he wants, but he also lives where he wants. And I think the other big takeaway here is, you know, Bryce is constantly listening and learning. You know, again, when he's. He's on our masterminds or I invite someone like he's. He's all ears, you know, and I think just being curious, knowing what you don't know and bringing in people that can, that can do that for you, I think is important too. So. Awesome. I love it. And focus on your core values, your people again. That's the hardest piece of a business in my Opinion, but so it requires constant attention because that can spiral out of control real quick. So any, any final words before we go, Bryce? [00:39:28] Speaker A: No, I don't think so. I, I really appreciate the opportunity to be here. Happy to, you know, to the extent any of your listeners or viewers are interested in reaching out, you know, I think our contact information will be linked in the, the show notes, as they say. But I'm always happy, you know, and we do, we, we talk to attorneys all over the country, you know, about different business decisions, case all the time. So. And I'm always an open book as far as that goes. You know, it's. I suppose if there's a last thought, you know, for all, all of us out there, have an abundance rather than a famine mentality, be willing to share. And, you know, I think if you do that, you're going to be ahead [00:40:07] Speaker B: of the game 100%. That's a, that's a great point. Even in your local community, your competitors, you know, and me, like, I, I know all my competitors for the most part, talk to them, friends with them, lose deals with them, they lose deals to me. [00:40:18] Speaker A: But all those threats are really, they're imagined, you know what I mean? Like, like you're gonna do. There's plenty of business. You're, you're doing great. We're doing great. [00:40:28] Speaker B: Yeah. And, and you are unique. Your own, your own brand. You know, someone might want to go downtown with a big fancy law firm, but another majority are going to want to have a, you know, experience with like, McPartland Law and Alice Kirsta Town. It's going to be an office that they can get to. And then just how, you know, how you carry yourself, your brand, your culture. Some will like one, some will like the other. There's plenty of opportunities out there for all of us to lean into what makes you, you and your, your differentiators and be authentic. [00:40:55] Speaker A: I think that's at the end of the day, like I always tell folks, you know, I'm never going to give anybody the hard sell. Go with who you're comfortable with. And I think if you do that, I think that's why we work together. You know, candidate, like, you know, Ray wasn't the first, you know, like, like, you know, we, we're looking at different outfits and, and the reality is, is like, you know, there was a connection there that, you know, at this point's over three years old. [00:41:22] Speaker B: Yeah. I guess you've been a client for over three years. Yeah. I think we got a review from Bryce and it was something like, you know, we weren't pushy or salesy. And I didn't have a sales team at the time. I actually took back the role. I had a sales team, got rid [00:41:36] Speaker A: of the sales team. [00:41:37] Speaker B: And when I met with Bryce, it was me like. And so obviously I never try to sell or push anybody at all, but. And my salespeople, even though I have a team now of salespeople, they don't either. You know, it's just not our mentality to do that. And here's the facts, here's what we think that served us well. You know, can we be more aggressive and close more? Maybe, maybe, but you could. It's just not, not how we want to do it. [00:42:02] Speaker A: You know, when you're, when you're selling, there's always the danger of over promising and under delivering. And, you know, I think at the end of the day, if you kind of know who you are, people pick up on it. People pick up on whether or not you're being authentic or not. [00:42:18] Speaker B: Yeah, that served us well. And yeah, we'll continue that journey. And I speak myself every, every single morning. And yeah, I'm happy that, you know, they're all that way, not hard sales, you know, type of folks. So, Bryce, again, thank you so much. Again, we could share a lot more, but please connect with Bryce. If you want a personal introduction, email introduction or whatever, I can do that for you. Again, I see Bryce at least monthly and we talk often, so there's a lot to be learned from him. But he's also, he's, he's growing, he's on the journey and I'm sure you can share a lot about what he's doing that we didn't cover here today. [00:42:55] Speaker A: So really appreciate it, Kevin. It's been fun. [00:42:58] Speaker B: Absolutely. All right, everyone, thank you so much for tuning in and we'll see you on the next episode. Thank you so much. [00:43:12] Speaker A: Sa.