Episode Transcript
David Arato (00:00)
We are able to rank our clients in competitive markets, not highly competitive markets, but a competitive market nonetheless. Within a matter of weeks using just content, content is more important than it used to be. I think backlinks are less important than it used to be. I think freshness is more important than it used to be. The reason I think backlinks are less important is because you're getting citations from no follow links now that devalues the backlink. And like again, we're gonna go back to Reddit. Reddit is being surfaced. That's not even a backlink, that's a mention. The whole guidance remains the same.
Most firms survive, the best ones scale. Welcome to the Managing Partners Podcast, where law firm leaders learn to think bigger. I'm Kevin Daisy. Let's jump in. What's going on, managing partners? Family. Welcome. I got a good friend here of mine. Well, we've known each other for a little bit, ⁓ but David Rados on the show from Lexington Content. And yeah, we're gonna be talking about some cool stuff today. What do we got?
David? Well, let's talk about content, AI visibility, how content helps with AI visibility, AI content, watermarking. We got a lot to talk about. A lot of cool stuff. So ⁓ yeah, so Dave's ⁓ Dave's in a similar space, but he helps ⁓ well he's helped agencies like mine ⁓ produce amazing content for law firms and ⁓ he's got a really cool niche business. ⁓ obviously this is a business podcast. We're all here to talk about.
business and how we operate. But today we're gonna really talk about what you law firm owners should be thinking about, ⁓ when it comes to your SEO, your AI visibility. ⁓ and we're gonna kinda talk about what we see and what we do for our clients, what we see works, things to think about, look out for, things you can do yourself, ⁓ that that we see working. So we'll just kinda go around down the rabbit holes and see where we go. So David
First off, we won for everyone listening, ⁓ tell us a little bit more about yourself and your company and and what you're focused on. Sure. as you mentioned, I own Lexicon Legal Content. We help both law firms and agencies who do not have in-house content teams meet their content needs. So what we do is we create jurisdiction specific, optimized, accurate, compliant content for law firm marketing campaigns. So whether that's blog content or press release, an FAQ page, the home page of your website, we create all that content.
We have also recently gotten into ⁓ social media video content. So that's scripting, editing, making it look pretty, branding it for you, and then actually doing the distribution as well. Yeah, huge. That's awesome. So so check them out. ⁓ if you have some content needs. And, you know, obviously here at Ray we we develop, you know, the websites, the st the strategy, the SEO and you know, content's a major part of that. And
You know, now with all the AI platforms, visibility there, how do you show up? How are you recommended? ⁓ there's a lot of questions around that, of course. And I'll be speaking at a couple of conferences this fall about that. Exactly. The th the crazy thing is my talk can't be completely finalized because it's it'll probably change a little bit between now and then, but it'll change by tomorrow. Yeah. It's gonna It's going to change. ⁓
So yeah, it's you know, I know here we're constantly evolving to to stay on top of the changes. Google, yeah, platforms, what it really takes for a law firm to to to be recommended, to be seen, to be trusted, to be the authority. And there's no like hack or trick, unfortunately. There it's a lot of things you gotta be doing. ⁓ and we'll I'm sure we'll we'll cover a couple of them here. But ⁓ so yeah.
You wanna talk about content first? ⁓ no, I wanted to ask you a question. Do you do you do you agree that modern SEO looks more like traditional PR than it's ever looked like before? What I mean by that is technical signals are losing importance. And what we're looking at is more like what was what PR was before the internet, right? Like get yourself on the news, get yourself mentioned for
You know, do something for your community, get involved, sponsor the little league league, little league team. You you you get the idea. Like I think SEO is looking more and more like this. And I'm seeing this in the content space that like it is a hundred percent. And and I'll I'll back that up by saying the last year we've spent building a PR team. So we now have I think I think we have six full time people that just do PR. And this is traditional and digital. ⁓ yeah, digital signals.
Is is a lot of what we're looking for mentions and it's kind of what David's talking about. SEO is mostly, you know, over the years writing content, copy on your websites, talking about yourself. Hey, I'm awesome. We're good. We we cover all these these aspects of the law. Questions are all answered. But these platforms want to know what other people think. What's the world thinks? Are you being mentioned often? Are you is it relevant to to what you do? So we started building out a PR team.
And that's something that you know, podcast episodes, interviews, media coverage, ⁓ on shows, the news, articles, all the opportunities you can imagine, pretty much. You can take for or ⁓ but usually it's it's free opportunities that that these places are looking for someone with your expertise. We've been working hard at that and building this growing really fast. So I find it interesting that sorry, it didn't mean to interrupt. Go on. No, you go ahead.
I find it really interesting that like Reddit has become cited as such an important part of AI visibility, but all of those links are no follow, right? Like Reddit does not provide a f so it's not, is this isn't SEO the way it looked like 10 years ago, right? Like you're chasing no follow links right now. Like even a no, even a no-follow link provides value. And I think, and tell me if you agree with this, I think it's because the LLMs, or I should say the chatbots run by LLMs.
Are crawling the internet at large and returning results that they find relevant. So it's not about Google's algorithm and like this link is passing this much link juice, right? More like, wait, this is huge. Like I think they look at it and they're sophisticated enough now to say this is user generated content. It's real and it flags this firm or this entity, whatever it's a firm or a HVAC shop.
as a real and then they look at it as user generated content being more valuable than a potentially paid for backlink in, you know, whatever back whatever website that like the link farms are using these days. You know what I mean? Do you agree with that? Yeah, I a hundred percent. And it's also it's looking for kind of like, you know, Google with that's re you know, Google reviews, right? Like you can't change them. People can say whatever they want. So if you run a shitty business
Everyone's gonna freaking find out. So and it's it's using Reddit. Reddit's very similar, right? It's you can't self promote on Reddit. It's people talking real shit or not usually more shit, but about your business or your firm or who you are. So it's it's taking that, especially if you have a a thread that's wildly popular, it's got tons of comments and and things like that. It's gonna value that and say, All right, here's lots of real people.
you know, on a ⁓ a high authority site, you know, mentioning this business, saying good things, bad things, whatever it is. So yeah, it's very interesting. So it's more like the the context of it is more important versus like link juice, right? Hunt a hundred percent. I also think it's interesting that like I think Google AI overviews being on the so well the reason most recent statistic I've seen is that AI overviews are being triggered by eighty percent of law firm searches.
And I don't know about you, but my Google, like this is anecdotal and I recognize that. But my my interaction with Google and search has changed significantly in the past couple of years. Like I'm clicking on fewer sites and interacting with the AI at length in like multiple queries. Like I got a trip coming up to I got a trip coming up to Greece, right? So it used to be the case that I'd be like, where's good places to eat on Santorini?
And then I look at someone's top ten list. Now I'm actually looking at the AI overview and interacting with it. Well, I'm, you know, my my wife's a vegetarian. She's not gonna eat lamb. So like the secondary search within that platform is more conversational. And I'm not going to a site until I see information in a link, and that's when I go to the site. You know what I mean? Yeah. So I do the same thing. I think that's one of the biggest things that I will be talking about here at some of these conferences is like
Okay. How do you show up in the AI? Yeah. How do you show up in Google? Yeah. I'm well I'm saying that's that's one conversation. But what's the change what's the behavioral change of the consumers because of AI? Mm-hmm. And so that's exactly what's happened to you. You're you've seen yourself change with how you're interacting with it. And depending on what you're looking for, is it's gonna be it. But you're you're asking longer questions. You're not going
Car accident attorney ⁓ near me. Like Yeah. No. That's not a search people did. Like it's yeah. Yeah. Now it's you know, what's the best poster injury attorney in Virginia Beach, Virginia that has handled ⁓ serious injuries in the last sixty days. Whatever, I know, you can get you can get crazy with it. Like you what you can give me so specific and I can go dig and find, okay, this is what you're looking for. Based on that.
And so now my searches are so much more in depth that not everyone's gonna show up for that because it's you're like, well, you're looking for this specific, then I'll show you this firm. And I think that feeds into content too, because then you get the secondary question, like, okay, how long do I have to file my claim? Right. And like who ⁓ what attorney has what law firm has case positive case results in a similar situation, right? And like what I'm what I'm saying is that you then in order to be surfaced in that ongoing
I'm not even in call it search anymore. In that ongoing conversation, the conversation with AI, how do you get your firm to be surfaced? And it's like deep, specific content that answers the query directly. So like no longer I mean, we're we're twenty years out from keyword stopping. Like that's a fact. Are we twenty I would say yeah, twenty years out from like remember remember where like you used to take the keywords and make them the same color as the background? White white in the background. That's right. That's right.
We were twenty years out from that, but like now it's not even enough to write good deep content on one page. Like it has to like the content now has to anticipate the next question that the the user is going to not even search again, like interact with the AI. And then hopefully you get surfaced because of the depth of your content and the fact that you're demonstrating responsiveness to that query. Yeah. But then now it's like but also let's check all these other sources and see what other people have said. And then
Avo like all the all the review sites that I've been like, screw them, screw them, screw them, don't ever pay Avo and Fine Low and all this crap. now they're all of a sudden super important and they're cited all the time. And and Google reviews are not. Do you think it's 'cause it's USG on Avo? Like do you think it's user generated content?
I get I mean, again, they're not pulling Google reviews to say, Hey, here's a Google. They're they're going Avo primarily and all these other ones. So it's like so now it's like we have all these, you know, hundreds of law firms that work with like, hey, now you need to get reviews on all these other places. It was hard enough to get reviews on Google. And so now you have the the staggered strategy to be like, Well, we want some reviews over here, we want some over there. So it's it's asking a lot. ⁓
How are you getting your law firm clients to incentivize their clients to are you like have have you given them any are you working with them to create strategies to incentivize reviews? absolutely. I mean, I want to hear all about it. We're giving our we're giving our clients homework ⁓ every meet yeah, every time we meet with them. So it's that's the thing. Law firms that are listening, like this is not an agency, do everything for me type of, you know, it's it's a effort, a group effort, you know, have a good partner that's gonna help you out. But you and your staff at the law firm.
have to be contributing every single day. And again, you mentioned like community events and all these other opportunities that sometimes, you know, your internal marketer or your Amazon assistants, whatever, they might need you know, that might be needed to to get some of this stuff done. And everything else is so important. You have video content, captioning content, social media, all those things are important. I recently was at a conference and I forget who said it, but
They mentioned that like the best time, especially in the personal injury space, the best time to get a review from a client is when they're picking up their check. Right. Like they're the happiest they're gonna be with your service the minute they're looking at that five or six figure check sitting in their hand and thinking to themselves or more, obviously, thinking to themselves this law firm did a great job for me. So what this person mentioned was like have in person check pickup day. And I thought it was a really interesting strategy. Now this this is outside of my area of expertise, but the idea is you've got a QR code in the lobby.
You got some pizza or some cake or something out. People are eating, they they're getting money, and all they have to do is scan the QR code and leave the review right there. Like, don't wire the money, don't send the check in the mail, have come in. Plus you get you get the check in, right? 'Cause they're in your office. So you get that that geo check in too. I don't know. I think it's an interesting idea. So well, I I've heard some other ones too. ⁓ this is through some some folks I've had on this show, but you know, some law firms, man, they they're so dialed in to their systems, there's
Process their client experience. But I I knew some law firms that they asked for the review in the first couple days. Like, hey, you called us, we we talked to you, we got you all the information you wanted. ⁓ we're your files moving, we're cranking, we're moving. Ask for it at that point and say, hey, we hope you've had a great experience with more. We're going continue to do this all the way through. And and the thought in here is the person, so say you, you've made the decision to go with this firm, and you want to validate.
That that was a good decision. The same reason sometimes we get referrals from a business owner that just signed with us. It's they're validating their decision. Hey, you're gonna love these guys. They're awesome. They're great. Even though there's no results yet, there's no work that's been done yet. So it's it's either so for me, it's either then or you have to wait till the end at that point. Every point of delight is another way of her to
heard her to describe. Like anytime your your client seems thrilled with you, ask him for a review. I don't care if it's an intake in the middle of service. Anecdotally, again, something happened to us. Like we have a client that's extraordinarily happy with us. I asked for a review when she was talking about how great the team was. She said, okay, I'll give it to you in a couple weeks when we see some work product. Now I've got to nudge them now that they have work product and they're still thrilled. But like to your point, like get the get while the getting's good, right? Like if they if they're if you want it, you know, it should have like she could have been like, you know what, actually
I will. I will say this lawyers are listening, you all are tough with this, you know. ⁓ referrals do not come easy with with you guys and I get it. Reviews the same way. But I've had plenty of clients be like we don't have enough time and experience to know if we can give a review yet. Sure. Same with the referrals. And so it's but if you don't ask, you know, you're not gonna get anything back. But it's just tougher in that space. I was I was telling David, you know, we we do have ⁓
a brand that works more like in the home services space as well. Totally separate. But they tend to refer and do all that stuff out of the gate because again they're trying to validate, okay, I made the decision. Like if you went and bought a new car, you wouldn't talk crap about that brand of that car, right? You would probably talk it up and you would recommend it to other people because otherwise you look an idiot 'cause you just bought a car that you don't like. Luckily it hasn't happened to me.
So you're saying that you you think people psychologically are interested in telling themselves they made the right decision and therefore are in a place Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. I like that. Yeah, again, just think about if you went and bought a new Toyota Tacoma, I know, pick something. I just I just got one. You wouldn't like, These they kind of sucked. I don't really like that. Like you just spent sixty grand on or whatever you spent. So you're not gonna do that, right? So you're gonna talk good about it, you're gonna buy new parts for it, you're gonna show it off. ⁓
You're gonna recommend it ⁓ naturally. So I say I like my Tacoma. My Tacoma's a great truck. See, there you go. It's a fantastic truck. I like it more than my Wrangler. This episode is not sponsored by Sueda, but if you want
⁓ I got a Chevy, twenty five hundred. nice, man. You're that's a big truck. What are you towing? You have a boat. That's what it is. I have a little camper. I should I went the other day my buddy's my neighbor, he bro broke down with this camper in North Carolina and I'd had to go drive and tow his camper back. ⁓ wow. All right, all right. That's why I have a truck. Love it. Anyhow, we're off topic. We're off topic. So
Yeah, so I I think the review so back to like AI disability, right? It's there's a lot of things. There's a lot of signals. And so if you're just sitting around and just thinking about, well, maybe I should do some social or maybe I should do some content. Like you're just so far behind, like you're you're just not in the same atmosphere. Like it's now like you're producing at a higher level and in areas that you never even thought to put your content or get reviews, mentions.
You have to be out in the marketplace. If you're trying to grow in your little town, like people need to know who you are. Your name has to, you know, be circulated for you even to come up. So I think it's gonna be difficult for people to like what should I put time and energy into, you know? So I'm seeing and let me be clear. I think there's certainly a place for full on SEO, link building, technical, et cetera. We are able to rank our clients in
Competitive markets, not highly competitive markets, but a competitive market nonetheless, within a matter of weeks using just content. That being said, those that it requires an ongoing effort. Because I think content freshness has become more important of a ranking signal. Like we talked about how SEO looks more like traditional PR. I think the value of the backlink has like it's still SEO. We are just an SEO five point today.
Like AI has changed SEO, but like what what is the overall and I I I hope you agree with this and tell me if you don't. I think like the the the guidance and the best practices from five years ago still hold true today. Create a clean, easily navigable website, put out great content that's helpful to your readers, and make sure that you're up to date with technical stuff, right? And like have a still and that's why people that have already done that for the last five years or more. Yep, yep. Already
Show up, right? And there's a big piece of it, you know. Right. I think what's changed to me is what I'm seeing. And again, tell me if you agree or disagree, and we we can disagree and talk it out. I think that like the levers are different, right? Like I think content is more important than it used to be. I think backlinks are less important than it used to be. I think freshness is more important than it used to be. Right. And I the reason I think backlinks are less important is because you're getting citations from no follow links now, right? So like that devalues the backlink. And like again, we're gonna go back to Reddit. Like if Reddit is being surfaced.
That's not even a backlink, that's a mention. Those are citations. See what I mean? So like the whole guidance remains the same. It's just the bar graph of importance on these different factors has changed. You know what I mean? Well, yeah, you're used to get you know being a backlink, a big one, and like that's the same back you've had the same backlink for five, ten years. Yep. That's super important. Still now it's like, okay, well, how many mentions and how often? How recent? Like how recent content. Content. How fresh? How recent?
So what I'm seeing too is information gain. Like, I remember when I got in this business and we were working with an agency that I'm not going to mention on your podcast, but they were ordering content from us and like five things to do after okay, I'm gonna use St. Louis because I I I know the market. St. Louis is a bunch of little suburbs. It's kind of unique in this way in the country. We were doing five things to do after a car accident in St. Charles, five things to do after a car accident in Belleville, five things to do after a car accident in Richmond Heights. Like every
There are like 30 municipalities there. We were doing this not verbatim the same piece of content, but the same structure. Here are the five things to do. Write it 30 different write it 30 unique ways so it's actually indexed by Google. That worked back then. That's not gonna work. That's not gonna work these days. You know? Like it's just it's that content has been recycled so many times that it's not anything adding anything new to the conversation. And what I'm seeing working now is like, and I think I mentioned this maybe in the last pod we did, but.
Something as simple as taking, like go to your state's Department of Transportation website, pull up the accident statistics from this year or the most recent year available, and the year before that, find two analogous statistics and do some simple math and say motor ac motorcycle accidents went up by X percent or went down by X percent, but from 2024 to 2025, let's say. That simple math creates new data, right? It's new data and
Google and the and the AI platforms are desperate for new information. They want new information so badly because there's so much AI shit slop out there. They want something substantive that they can surface because their incentive is to surface the best, most recent information to their users. So if you give them something to surface, even if it's like basic elementary school math, if you give them something to surface, they're gonna surface it. That's what we're seeing, at least.
That's a good point. I love that. ⁓ yeah, for us it's like getting like detailed case results and studies for clients of their clients, like and and getting that often to to update the content with throughout the content, data, statistics, all that kind stuff. The more we can bring in that into it, the better. and yeah, that's good that's good stuff right there. I'm gonna I'm gonna riff on what you just said too. It's like if you look at the four pillars of what
makes good content from Google straight from the horse's mouth. Google. Experience, expertise, authority, trust. What E A T, right? Eat. What does AI not have? Experience. It inherently is not experience. It is not an entity with experience. So like if you want to demonstrate that first pillar of eat experience, like and we do a robust intake process with all of our attorneys to like find out what makes them different. Right. Like what do you do on the weekend?
How are you involved in your community? Where do you go to law school? What case results, like bar and community involvement, bar associate, what you know, what do you do? Who are you? Because like AI can pump out four things to do after a car accident in Virginia Beach. AI can't pump out who you are and what you do with your life. And if you infuse your content with that kind of information and additional statistical information, it's flagged as human, which brings me to.
What are we going to do with this watermark, man? What's gonna happen? What's gonna happen? What's gonna happen there? Is my business gonna look like it did five years ago? I don't know. It's gonna change, right? Are we gonna have two different service lines? Here's not watermark content, here's watermark content. I don't know. I mean, ⁓ honestly, for you know, for a while we've had like what we call premium content, which is like no AI ever involved. And then we have human AI human. No one gives a crap about.
either one of this but like there it's there's not down to the weeds where they're like, I don't want that, I want this. But here's the thing. How is it gonna be used? So it's gonna be like, okay, now you're you're never gonna show up because you have used it and there's a watermark, or is it really gonna be just for like certain circumstances where it's like a lawsuit or something where it's like, okay, let's look at this. it's watermark content. So the question is I don't know. Here's what we don't know, in my opinion, and and tell me if you agree. We don't know what Google's gonna do with the watermark. Like Google is still what we're we're still catering to
Google. I don't care if it's Google's AI overviews or SEO. So does Google care that it's watermarked? I don't care if it's water. That's the big that's the big question. That's right. Like it we if if if in when this watermark comes out, because PSA, the watermark is not out yet, and there are no detector tools yet, so it's not something to worry about. But when it does come out and we see Google devaluing things that hit the w that have the watermark, pieces of content that have the watermark, then of course no one's gonna want it 'cause it's worthless, right? But if watermarks change again real quick.
Totally. So we gotta see what A lot of these agencies that just banging shit out. I mean, I'm talking like crazy stuff seems like, yeah, we do thirty pieces month for three grand a month SEO and everything. You're crazy. Okay. So here's my here's my catchphrase on that. Zero effort content has zero value. What if we're all pumping out the same content, what incentive does Google have to rank any of it? No, it's just trying to clean up all the mess at this point. That's right. That's right. It's between size. Someone's gonna have so if you go ahead, sorry. Another statistic.
By the way, I was there's another marketer that I know posted this ⁓ but AI search invisibility, everyone's freaking out and do I show up or do I not show up? Google still has the majority of the market by far. ⁓ and so why us as business owners, we might be ⁓ early adopters using AI and people are using AI to search and find stuff, but it's still like a few percentages of actual searches. ⁓
That are happening. So it's there's a lot more research phase, but people are still ended up on Google or websites when they make their final buying decision. So that's like eighty eighty some percent. I th you're absolutely right. I think this is why me personally, strategically, my initiative has been getting our clients into the AI overviews. More like to me, Chat GPT and cloud visibility and perplexity are secondary to the AI overviews. Cause to your point, the majority of searches are happening in Google. But here's the really messed up thing. There is not
one-to-one overlap between who's cited in the AI overviews and who's cited in the SEO results. And I know this personally because like unsurprisingly, I've been optimizing our own website for artificial intelligence optimization for law firms, AEO for law firms, AIO for law firms, whatever the the ⁓ acronym of the day is because our industry can't decide on what it's driving. Like let's pick one so I can optimize. Okay. GEO. Yeah, GEO. So here's I'm glad you brought that up. Yesterday I checked.
GEO for law firms. We are in, we are the top we were yesterday the top result in the AI overview. We're not on page one in the SEO results. That doesn't make any sense. Right? So like what's what's going on here? Like it's almost like if you got a fresh piece of content that is good, you can skip the results page because it's gonna throw you right in the AI overviews. That's right. But the results don't change that frequently and that quickly. So it's like So you're saying you're saying the SEO is static and the AIO is variable?
what it appears to me. I love I mean I love that analysis. And when I say, you know, statics probably but it's it's not moving that quickly. It's more like a a more hard result versus yeah reviews I've I've been on the top of those in the same day of posting an article on LinkedIn. Me too. Me too. And then it's gone in a couple of days or a week or two. So so that's great for my business model because like if the law firm wants to stay in the in the AIO pack, we got to be putting on a weekly blog.
I think you should be putting out a weekly blog anyway. But like let's figure look, we've done a really good job of cornering AIO for law firms. Not a high volume search term, not a high competition search term, but we did it through just content. Just content. Just on site content and we've attracted backlinks because it's a hot topic. Like I'm not out there buying backlinks, we're getting them organically. Right. So like this is the power of Yeah. Yeah. We're getting backlinks from credible sources.
automat you know, through that process, it's not buying them. And ⁓ we just never been a been one to to to buy links. So I know a lot of my competitors do. It's dirty little secret. Dirty little secret on the industry, right? But we don't. We are we earn them and that's the we tell straight up what we're what we're doing, what our plan is. Why can't you tell me how many links I get this month? 'Cause we're not 'cause we're buying them. Yeah, if I bought them, I could buy you thirty and they'd be shitty from an Indian in a link farm in India. By getting them their name out there, getting mentioned.
We get the links at the same time. So ⁓ I have a question for you operationally. Does the PR team talk to the SEO team? Strategically? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We have yeah, content, SEO, web. We have like even yeah, web and technical SEO different than SEO and PR, yeah. So it's it's all kind of tied together at this point. ⁓ you can have just one service kind of like technically, I guess, like PR only. ⁓ which is a great ⁓
You know, a lot of law firms already have digital marketing contracts or in with a agency. But PR is something we've built out w it can kind of be sold on its own. It's a good foot in the door for us, I think. It's so PR good SEO, a PR is just gonna help it. I love that. I love that. It also gives you all the all the other ⁓ tangibles. Like you're you're ac actually interviewed on a show, you were on a podcast, you you know, you got mentioned in this article that you can be proud of for thought leadership. So it's
It's got more tangibles to it, but it also assists the overall strategy. Sure. I mean, it all works together in the end. This is a we we're ⁓ we're launching on-site video content marketing now. And I was talking to my sales team this morning and we were discussing like, how do we discuss the SEO benefits? So our idea right now is doing like content content cascade. So we'll create a bunch of blog content for you. We'll turn that into 15 second social shorts, and we'll also turn that blog content into on-site video. So you can have a video page, video explainers.
And we were talking about how like video doesn't have the same SEO clear the same clear SEO benefits as textual content, right? Like Google can't crawl the video. It knows that the video exists, it can look at the metadata, but it's not actually crawling the content, right? But like the cohesive, holistic nature of I've got blog let's say you're divorced firm, I've got blog content on child custody, I've got video content on child custody. It
All works together to create authority and presence. And you're going to have some like Google wants to see you putting out content and it's all content writ large. And you're going to have some human beings, some users who would rather read and some who'd rather watch a two-minute video. So you got to give it to them in all formats. yeah. And then they're also, you know, there's we're trying to draw a connection to like, do they want to hire you as an attorney or someone else? And they see your video, that video can bring the human L aspect to it, and they go.
You know what, I like that guy or that gal, and and I I could see them being a good attorney for me. So, ⁓ so it's all part of the buy-in journey too. It's like AI might say, This is the best firm based on what you searched. They might just go off that and say done. You know what I mean? Divorce certain things like that. I mean, I I see this person, hear from ⁓ check out their videos, look at their reviews, you know, so it the rabbit hole might continue. But along the way,
You give them content in different ways that can consume it. You're helping them. And then they just they feel like, hey, I've been helped already. ⁓ I'm gonna hire this firm. So yeah, everything works together for sure. It it just makes attribution hard, right? Like that's that's I think the as a as a marketing agency. So we've never been really deep in the attribution game because we operate so much as a vendor to other agencies that keep the data.
We have switched out of that and now we're actually keeping we're we're watching metrics and content performance. But like the customer journey has become so circuitous, like it starts it could start on Chat GPT and then it could go to Claude and then it could go to Google and then it could go back to the AI overviews. So how do you know? Like you you it's so much harder. What's that? We're doing chat GPT we're doing chat GPT ads now. We have a bunch of clients where we're running. Yeah. How's the conversion on that? I feel like the conversion must be great.
It it's really hard to to track. They don't give you a lot. Right now it's very basic. You can't do a lot of targeting. So it's just new and and of course everybody wants it, but it's yet to be proven to say, hey, is this worth the time and effort? Is it all what it's tracked up to be? So so we're running for a lot of firms. We're we're seeing what happens. So are the ads I haven't seen any ads. So I'm I'm a Claude user. I I'm I'm I'm very ⁓ loyal to Claude.
I so I haven't seen GPT ads. Like, are they clearly marked like are they as clearly is it are like a photo of the firm or the attorney. It almost looks like LSAs, like yeah. ⁓ photo the attorney and then you got a couple couple lines of text. Yeah. And yeah. Is this does it say sponsored clearly? Like this is a sponsored result the way it does on a P P C Yeah. Mm-hmm. Okay. interesting. All right. So actually, ⁓
Gee or actually attorney sync, I saw they posted on LinkedIn today and it was like they looked at like the little information you can click on about the ad and it said it was being run by a different firm than the firm it said. So
can be, I don't know. So we don't even know how well these are being executed at this point. But there's not much control on the agency side at this point. It's not much you can do. And ⁓ we're waiting to kind of see where it where it goes. It should get better, I would think, just like anything. So is your is your val your value ad is setting up the ad and running it and running the account and making sure that that the spend is working well and all that. But so you're not getting Yeah, right now we're we're kind of doing it with for clients that we already have, just like testing it and then pretty much being clear with them. Hey
You wanna do this? We're learning. We'll put some out we'll put some budget over here and run it. So ⁓ it's taken off pretty quick, but it's again it's this yet to be seen like real the real ROI from it. So Totally. Totally makes sense. We'll see. We'll see. Well, David, we could probably talk all day. A lot of things we could probably cover. ⁓ but for this episode, we definitely covered a lot of things. You know, for l for owners out there, you know, things are changing kind of rapidly, but at the same time.
It good SEO, good content that's helpful to your clients will never serve you wrong, whether that's video, copy, whatever. ⁓ so continue to do that. Don't take your eye off that. You do need to start looking at the other areas that you're not putting effort into and you know, coming up with strategies to to get reviews in other places, mentions, do your homework, you know, and and and kind of stay with the times, but it's it's definitely changing. Interesting to see where the watermarks go.
But yeah, track what's working for you. Like look at your reports, look at the metrics. Where are your clients coming from? If you know if they're still coming from like the sources that you've been putting money into, don't just shift over to now we have to be in Chat CPT and just because everyone's talking about it. I agree. Double down on what's working. Don't chase the notion of the subject. Yeah. Yeah. Dip your tail into it, but be smart about it first. So, David, how can folks that are listening?
Find you and and connect. David at lexiconlecontent.com is the best way to get a hold of me. You can even text me and my number's on the on the website. There you go. Lexiconcontent.com. Lexiconlegalcontent.com. Well, David's my a good buddy, good friend. Go check him out. Check out his company. If you need help with content, he's the guy to talk to. Yeah. Thanks for having me on. And and if you already have a marketing agency, we can certainly be additive to that.
We don't have to do the whole thing. We can just do additional. So let us know if we can help. Awesome. Well, David, thanks so much. Everyone have a great day. Thank you so much. And we'll see you on the next episode.
