Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: The law firm's been pushing their SEO vendor, like, really hard for three or four months. And then I talked to the SEO company and they're just like, you know, hey, like, we've needed this stuff from the law firm for four months. And we keep telling them, you know, get this to us and we can really do something with it. And then, you know, we go back to the marketer and the marketer's confused. You know, that was a sign to me. Like, what do they expect from me?
[00:00:41] Speaker B: Most firms survive. The best ones scale.
Welcome to the Managing Partners Podcast, where law firm leaders learn to think bigger. I'm Kevin. Daisy. Let's jump in. What's up, everyone?
Welcome to another episode of the Managing Partners podcast. Thanks very much for tuning in and listening to this show. Always trying to bring value, meet great people and just have great conversations. So I have someone I, I just saw through a bunch of networks and people I know and reached out to her and said, hey, we should probably connect and like to have her on the show. I got Tiffany on the show here. She's sharp, cookie, and she's got a background, knows the folks that I know, like Ben Glass, and she'll tell us a little bit her background here in just a second. Tiffany, welcome to the show.
[00:01:29] Speaker A: Oh, thanks so much for having me. I really appreciate it. I think you're maybe my second or fourth podcaster I've been a guest on, but I have my own podcast where we have like 60 episodes. So it's actually really nice to be on the other side of it.
[00:01:43] Speaker B: Excellent. And I appreciate that. And yeah, I love being on the podcast when I can. And, you know, it's nice sometimes to do that instead of being the host, so I can appreciate that.
Well, tell us your background. Tell us kind of where you got your start and leading up to. To now running your own thing and we'll learn more about that. And we're just going to kind of riff today, everyone. So excited to have her on here, chatting with me today.
[00:02:12] Speaker A: Well, I, I went to college for marketing. I switched up my major a few times, started out an English major and ended up going for a marketing degree. And I can say kind of honestly that I was really just looking for a degree that was quick to finish with the credits that I already had. Um, and I had some interest in marketing and mass media, so it just kind of seemed to align with my short term goals of getting out of college fast. And after I graduated, I did like some small, like, unpaid internships and projects, but I ultimately Ended up working as an admin assistant for a tech staffing and recruiting firm up here in Virginia. And it wasn't a super great place to work. I don't want to badmouth them too much, but it was, it was very stressful. And you know, the company phone was forwarded to my cell phone after hours and on weekends so I was taking calls for them 24 7. And it was just, it was just kind of a nightmare. But I had like no like actual work experience and that was kind of the friend. I had only just moved to Virginia and so my resume probably looked weird to a lot of companies that I was applying for because I had just finished school, no work experience outside of like, you know, kind of minimum wages jobs in health care. So it took me a while to get started. Finally I got enough street cred, more or less with some of the projects that I had done that I was able to get a job working for Ben Glass and great legal marketing.
And at the tech staff and staffing and recruiting firm I saw just how like high in demand like tech jobs were. You know, this company was recruiting people out of high school for like web developers and programmers and a lot of times the only experience they had was you know, a project that they'd done themselves or you know, they had no formal training. They just, you know, started doing it one day. And so that's kind of what I did. Like I taught myself web development, I YouTube videos and website courses. I was just, you know, doing or just teaching myself, you know, WordPress, PHP script, you know, HTML and CSS. So those aren't like real like languages, so to speak.
And I learned all this stuff and finally got a job as a digital marketer working for great legal marketing. And it was really like really cool, I'll say, because like the marketing projects I'd worked on in the past were more like, you know, make this video, write this article. And working for Ben, it was more of like, you know, we're doing this for a purpose and that purpose is lead sign cases. And you know, that just made marketing a lot more like tangible for me because you know, when you're just starting out and you have no experience, like I didn't know if I was doing a good job. You know, those first projects I worked probably kind of sucked. But you know, what I learned from Ben and you know, just starting out in small business marketing is no, these are tied to like actual numbers and you know, I don't know know how other people think about it. But for me it Was kind of a relief because it was a way for me to measure this kind of creative work I was doing. Anyway, so I worked for Ben for like seven years and decided to start my own company. I'd already done some like, freelance web development kind of on the side and, you know, some digital marketing, you know, projects. And I really just wanted to own my own business and really freelance full time was my original plan.
But instead, like, I, it became like this company. I became a fractional cmo and I've just been kind of, you know, working this niche, you know, with the small law firms.
[00:05:47] Speaker B: Yeah, that's awesome. I mean, kind of a good, lucky thing to get hooked up with Ben out the gate and. Yeah, yeah, I can see him bigger picture. This one marketing project fits into a much bigger purpose and, and, you know, metrics, lead cases, helping clients. So I could definitely see him changing the way he looked at things there. For sure. And of course, you know, he's been teaching law firms this stuff for anything he's learned, you know, about this stuff for many, many years. So pretty cool that you came from that background.
So you kind of fall in love with the law firms as clients through this. We're working with Ben too.
[00:06:32] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, it, it, it was, I guess it, it kind of just happened that way because I went to all of the great legal marketing events. I showed up at the Mastermind and I just got to know this one really specific type of person, law firm business owner, really well. And you know, in the mastermind group, you know, Ben's mastermind group, I got to hear really behind the scenes stuff. Stuff that was like at the time, way above my pay grade, way above my mindset and beyond my understanding in some instances. But, you know, I just learned, you know, so much and what actually mattered to them. And, you know, I was also, I would also get kind of frustrated, you know, hearing the stories about, you know, vendors or, you know, marketing directors who they'd hire or, you know, this company that they hired to do video, you know, they would, they'd either get burned or screwed by somebody or, you know, pay a whole lot for a bunch of different marketing assets and then just have no idea what to do with them. And, you know, everyone is in the group, is really good at coaching them and just kind of pushing everyone else along. But, you know, it seemed to me that there is, there had to be like a better type of vendor, better way to help law firms than just by, you know, doing the same things that a lot of other marketing vendors have been doing.
[00:07:52] Speaker B: Oh, I mean I see it every day. I started out just like you as it was self taught. Didn't go to school for it, didn't know I wanted to school for, so I didn't want to basically because didn't seem like it made any sense. So I started making websites and doing SEO and, and just realized I could actually charge money for it and then started my own company. But over the years and up until this week, you know, I come across to law firms that are just burned multiple times, things aren't working. There's usually a lot more there to it. But it's. Some blame goes on the agency, some blame goes on the law firm itself. And I think really having someone like a CMO or at least someone, an agency that's going to take the time to understand and help the law firm understand that this is a two way street. There's, there's got to be support on both sides. But if the law firm doesn't have anyone there to, to bring it all together to have the strategy, their goals, how they operate and what they're looking to do, it makes it really difficult for a vendor or agency to, to be successful. Having someone like yourself or if they have an internal person to pull that together, it's really difficult to say hey, we're going to send you a bunch of leads, but their intake's crap or they don't have any good sales, you know, conversion numbers, or they're not doing their own brand, or they're not participating on other channels. It just makes the whole thing not work as well.
But I see burn. I have a lot of law firms that kind of me saying they're burned, burn, burn, burn. Three, four or five times. And it's usually more to it if you kind of dig into it.
[00:09:25] Speaker A: Yeah, it comes back to if you're the lowest common denominator in all these failed relationships, then the other issue might be, you know, I suppose not use. You know what I mean?
[00:09:36] Speaker B: Are you blaming me? Well, yeah, again I think, you know, I, I interview these law firms like someone, you know, it depends on I guess some law firm, something hot being like, yeah, fired them and I'm gonna hire you all and I come with like orders and they're gonna be like, you need to do this.
You can kind of already tell where that's going to go, but you know, something to take advantage of. Some law firms get taken advantage of, they just, they're not getting the work done that they signed up for. There was no strategy, but no One on the agency side stopped to say, hey, there's no strategy here. There's going to be problems. This won't work, you know, so I think you got to be in a position to be able to do that. Unfortunately, majority are not going to do those things. There's some really good ones out there that I respect and will take care of. You and I'm sure you have your short list of preferred ones. But with, you know, from your perspective, a firm brings you on. I want to kind of learn more about your process and how do you go about, you know, bringing in the right partners or, you know, is it the work you're doing yourself or bringing in partners, but kind of what's that process look like with talking to the firm to making the decision to bring on someone to help.
[00:10:42] Speaker A: So when I first started talking to law firms, you know, I explained to them what my program is. And the fractional CMO is essentially outsourced leadership for your marketing department. And you know, somebody who can not only manage the marketing department, but connect that to leadership at your firm, whoever, whoever it is, you know, that's usually what people are looking for when they're looking for a fractional cmo. So, you know, it's, it's outsourced leadership. And for me, I like that the goal of my program is to take somebody from, you know, where they're at now, you know, the point coming to me to the point where they can hire a full time CMO or marketing director.
I really see like a fractional CMO as kind of like this middle option between, you know, firms that are just starting out but want to grow smarts and need that leadership and then on their way up to, you know, full time cmo. Because realistically, if any CMO does their job right, eventually the revenues at the firm will increase, they'll grow and just expand and make these other hires, depending on, you know, what the law firm chooses to do.
[00:11:55] Speaker B: Sure. And so you're trying to get yourself fired basically at some point, which is,
[00:12:00] Speaker A: you know, and that's actually happening right now. Like one of my clients whom I love dearly, they got to that point where they need a full time cmo. And so, you know, we're onboarding this person and transitioning out of them. And I can, you know, kind of dust my hands off and say it was a job well done because they outgrew me, which is probably the best results I can give a law firm. Truly, some of my clients might stay clients, you know, for, you know, a while. Just because they only want to grow to a certain point or they also don't, you know, want that. You know, for law firms, they're not, you know, that's what they're looking for. Is that bridge?
[00:12:40] Speaker B: Yeah, I think that's excellent. That's a great kind of way to carry yourself and a great way to be and a great case study for sure that hey, if we have real success, I will be no longer working with you at some point. So I think that's okay. I like it. I got some law firms that come to us and say, hey, we want to hire you all, but we want to eventually be able to do this in house. Like they'll be up front, like we want to be able to run our own ads and do all this stuff. And I think that's, that's more than fair, you know, and say, hey, you know, we're here to help you do these things. And if you're going to bring around the people and hire and staff up, well, let's, let's go and we'll see where we get.
[00:13:21] Speaker A: I, you know, and oddly, you know, there are some things I just probably wouldn't recommend a law firm bring in house no matter their size. And I think like SEO and paid ads might be one of those. But you know, when you're thinking about like a market, your law firm will eventually need a marketing director. If you're doing marketing big enough, you know, you don't, you don't need, you know, part time help at a certain level because you need full time help and that like in house person who's connected to the brand but also like networking with specialists and leveraging specialists is, is really important to, you know, growing a firm and managing a firm because then I don't think it's a prevalent attitude these days. But back when I just got it started in legal marketing, there are a fair few of marketing directors who, who wanted to be like, do it alls. You know, they didn't to, you know, manage vendors or manage specialists. They wanted to do SEO themselves, they wanted to do paid ads themselves, they wanted to do social media themselves. But you know, you're not really a marketing director or a CMO if you're, if you're doing those things.
So you know, what I, what I do for my clients, you know, just more, more literal terms is marketing strategy. And so I try to plan out like a quarter, two quarters in advance.
So right now I'm planning for Q2, 20, 26 and I'm actually behind a little Bit So the end of this month I'm trying to catch up and generally what I do is I aim for three new marketing projects each quarter and those can be anything, but it's just dependent on the law firm's goals.
And I have a lot of stuff that I do or have done before where I have templates, you know, I, I use a project management board where I save everything we've done. And so, you know, if we need to repeat, you know, a marketing strategy for a different firm, it's kind of easy to spin up at this point if we've done it before.
And so, you know, we had, I mentioned the project management board, we bring in the law firm's team onto this board and basically act as project managers for the most part and just making sure things are getting done, things are getting done by the direct deadline. Questions are being addressed and on the vendor side of things, like I'm really, you know, vendor management.
So for SEO vendors, just making sure they're looped into whatever marketing that the in house team is doing and then holding the paid digital marketers accountable to results. But generally for me, like there are a few vendors that I just trust that I use all the time and for the most part like we're monitoring them but they're getting the job done because if they weren't getting the job done, we wouldn't be working with them.
So it's more like maintenance. Like, hey, you know, what are the results this week? You know, are they up, are they down, how they do on what can we do and kind of quick meetings when things are running right and, and then we just help manage the law firm's team, make sure they execute on the marketing projects. And also the kind of routine things like posting on social media, email newsletter, print newsletter and anything else that we're doing like on repeat and not like as a part of like a one time initiative. And then the last thing, which is either the most exciting or least exciting depending on who you are, which is marketing and reporting. There's metrics I look at for all my clients each week and then each month and you know, my team puts together the data for me, I look at the data and if there's any issue, you know, changes, deviations or not meeting our goals, it's something for me to call out, you know, on the project board murder in our next meeting. And so, you know, broad strokes, that's how I'm, I'm working with, with new law firms right now.
[00:17:07] Speaker B: That's excellent. Yeah, I love that Yeah, I mean, the reporting is fun if, if it's accurate, it makes sense. And, and once you kind of get that together, like, I, I'm, I always hated financials and like, spreadsheets and numbers.
Until you, like, start to understand the impacts of it and, and how they operate, then it's. You start to kind of geek out with it. So now is.
I'm far removed from, like, the work and the reporting from our team, but I still get glances when they share something or whatever. I just saw some. A little bit of gifts. It's always exciting to see the reports and the efforts that are being done. You know, a lot of the, what you just said there, too, is like you're, you're just on top of making sure everything is, is moving and marketing is constant. Right? So even if it's not on set it in, you know, forget it. But it's.
You have trusted vendors, so you're like, okay, they know what they're doing. They have a strategy to plan. We can just check in and everything, everything's on track. Then there's really nothing to, to go crazy about. I think every client we bring on is, you know, the first few months or how many months it may be is. It's kind of like, you know, they're, They've been burned and they're concerned, and the goal is to get to that kind of comfort zone where they trust us. And that's where you got to stay proactive, too.
Those things can kind of get stale. And I think that's where a lot of agencies mess up, is they kind of don't, you know, reach out. The client doesn't reach out. It's like, oh, well, if they're not saying anything, but then you're not bringing that, you know, the new ideas, like, things are changing rapidly. So, you know, you have to be bringing new things to the table. Like, hey, we've been doing it this way, but there's some other opportunities. Here's the other way we can be doing things where the clients will, you know, one, they won't think you're. You're doing anything that's going to help them improve and get the next level. But at the same time, again, the way things are changing right now, especially in the digital space, it's constant change at this point.
[00:18:57] Speaker A: Well, one of the things that I've heard from business owners and lawyers so many times over the years is, you know, bring me the ideas. Like, where are the ideas? And, you know, earlier this year, I, you know, I had to, like, Think about like, what is a fractional cmo, what is it that I can do to bring the most value to these law firms? And ultimately it was that, it was the ideas for me. Like, you know, bring me the marketing ideas. That's getting less and less intimidating of a request as time goes on because what's new to you is old to, you know, somebody I worked with, you know, three to four years ago. And so, you know, I tell people like, I have so many ideas, we have so many ideas, just tell me what your goals are and we'll, we'll pick one out of the hat to kind of help you meet them. It's not, it's maybe not that simple, but you know, for, but you love this.
[00:19:49] Speaker B: So.
[00:19:49] Speaker A: Yeah, but you know, what I can do for the law firms is just bring a whole lot of clarity around, you know, what can be done, what's achievable in their marketing department. So like, you know, and then the structure to it because you know, when I tell attorneys, like three marketing projects a quarter, three new marketing projects a quarter, and then we manage the ongoing stuff you're already doing that's really tangible and what, you know, they can, they can definitely understand that.
And a lot of times that's the very thing they've been struggling with. And you know, I love my marketing director. I never want to, I don't like calling people out, but marketing in house marketers particularly, like the one person marketing team, has a real problem with implementation. And so like for most of the attorneys that come to me, some of them have a ton of their own ideas that are just like, you know, in a Word document somewhere waiting to be put in promotion. And you know, for me, you know, I've been fortunate in my career to be exposed, exposed to not just digital marketing, but print marketing, graphic design. I do a lot of writing too. That's, you know, I'm known for like the digital stuff. But I do, you know, a fair bit of writing and I think I'm good at it. But you know, who can say, You know, I been in the production of marketing for a long time, the creation of marketing and content creation. So even if I've never done something myself, like I've seen the process that a video editor goes through to create a finished product or, you know, what a, you know, print newsletter should look like or not look like, but how it should be arranged and what's effective. And so I feel like for a lot of attorneys, they either push too hard or not enough because they just don't know what to expect of their marketers and their vendors. And so, you know, I'll see. Like, you know, the law firm's been pushing their SEO vendor like really hard for three or four months. And you know, and then I talked to the SEO company and they're just like, you know, hey, like we've needed this stuff from the law firm for four months and we keep telling them, you know, get this to us and we can really do something with it. And then, you know, we go back to the marketer and the marketer's confused. You know, that was assigned to me, like what do they expect from me? And you know, and you know, that's where it's like a two sided issue. And you know, the, I find that lawyers are comfortable pushing their vendors really hard, but maybe not as comfortable as they should be pushing their internal marketing team and saying like what are you doing? How do you spend your time? Or even just knowing like what they can expect them to do and accomplish realistically, like what's been within their bandwidth. And you know, they're lawyers, you know, they don't know the production of marketing and why should we expect them to? So makes sense why they just don't know. But you know, they know how to enforce the contract and so they'll push hard on the SEO vendor. You know, they don't, they don't quite know how to ask like, can you make this design prettier?
[00:22:55] Speaker B: Yeah, that's all good points right there. And yeah, just something for lawyers listening to just you know, have it done and you know, just look at your structure and how you have it set up and, and yeah, talk to your internal folks, talk to your, your vendors or have them talk to them. But I know we get held up a lot since we turn the red flag real quick though. If we say, hey, the law firm's not getting articles approved and we're not doing certain things that we need, we try to push pretty hard and make them well aware.
I think one problem can be, is to let it slide because, well, the clients not responding or they're busy and then two, three months go by and you have a situation like where they're blaming, blaming you. So you definitely have to speak up and say, hey, this won't work if we can't get these things. And you don't, you know, I never want to throw these computer under the bus in house. It's like, how do we work with them?
Like they're our best friend kind of thing.
We need that internal person Well, I
[00:23:57] Speaker A: mean, this is, I don't know if this is advice for, this is more advice for you Anders out there. Not necessarily the, the attorney is listening. But like for me, when, when I approach these relationships, you know, I'm stepping into a law firm who has like three or four vendors, all of which they may be trust like 50% and you know, they maybe have a small in house team and usually like I operate under like the assumption that everyone's just doing the best job that they can. You know, there's probably just some miscommunication or misalignment, you know, along the way. And usually that's what it is, you know, and I, it's hard for me because I never want to walk into a relationship and be like, fire this person, fire this person, fire this person. But like, honestly, if I do walk into that situation, it's pretty obvious pretty quick, you know, like who the bottleneck is and you know, what's, what's causing the delays. And it can be a vendor or it can be the in house team. And so, but I try to walk into these like, you know, with the assuming the best out of people and for the most part, like most people are nice and most people are just doing the best they can and you know, the problems are obvious and it's, it's just, you know, I. Law firms don't. Going back to what I was saying earlier, law firms and lawyers don't quite know what to expect from their marketers.
[00:25:17] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:25:17] Speaker A: And you know, so, you know, they sit in meetings and they hear, you know, reporting data and things that are being done. And I've had this problem myself, you know, where it's a question of, it's like, yeah, but what are you really doing? And it's just like everything I explained to you, you know, if you're not really good at communicating, like, you know, this is what's happening, this is what's going on.
And also your, your client or who you're talking to isn't really open to listening and understanding because I've seen it happen where you get into a meeting with somebody. Fortunately, it hasn't happened to me as Tiffany the shark cookie on her. But I've seen it a lot with law firms and their SEO companies where you get into a meeting and the law firm owner is just pissed and it's like, where are the results? What happened? What's going on? And the SEO team is just trying to explain. It's like, like, you know, we're doing this, we tried this. You Know, we only launched the website, you know, a month ago. There are just so many different things.
I feel like you just get so much further expecting the best out of people and not that, you know, your vendor's trying to screw you or something. I guess I'm kind of rambling.
[00:26:30] Speaker B: So I'm, I mean, you know, it's, you know, expectations are important, right? So if a lot, if the lawyers out there listening, like you're, if you're going to engage with that agency, like having clear expectations when you engage on what to expect, time that's needed, challenges.
Every firm is different in a different place in their, you know, in their life cycle. So it's, you know, if I get a firm that's brand new, it's different than a firm that's been in business for 20 years, one that has no brand versus one has a strong brand market, but has never been digital.
It's a totally different, you know, outcome that that's going to happen there. So it's, There's a lot of things, a lot of people, it comes out of communication to your point. It's usually there's a problem there.
And then sometimes you get lawyers in there. That is, they're not engaged. They don't understand it, so they just kind of mouth their head and. And then they're pissed after they get off the call because they don't understand any of it. And you just got to do a better way to say, all right, how do we explain this better to you, what's important to you, and kind of tailor that to the client. And we do that, see things different ways, you know, so you want all the details, the main metrics.
[00:27:49] Speaker A: I.
Which, you know, keep in mind, I own a small business. I only started three years ago, so I only just hired an accountant. And for me, like, hiring an accountant must be like what it's like for a law firm owner to hire maybe an accountant also, but an SEO company. Because all I know is I hate that shit and I am trusting you to take care of it and walk me through it and explain it to me like, I'm super stupid and also like, I'm legit. All those things are, all those things are true. And you know, so I, for me, like, I see a lot of parallels in that experience. My experience. And, you know, I feel like what a lot of, you know, law firm owners or marketing directors experience, but you do have to take the time to understand it because, like, if you don't under understand what your SEO vendor is saying or what your Paid ads vendor is saying you need to. And you know, it takes like hitting the books. Chachi BT asking questions, watching YouTube videos. I hate learning about taxes, but I freaking. Whatever, right?
[00:28:53] Speaker B: I feel the same way. My accounts, and they're awesome, but man.
[00:28:56] Speaker A: Yeah, it's like, but you know, to be. For me to be more comfortable with the whole thing, like, you know, you learn about it and you know, and so that's what law firm owners and their marketers like, have to do. You know, if they want to get more comfortable with SEO and paid ads. You know, that all that stuff is all my speed. Like, I'll, I'll continue to live here and if you're scared of it, just learn more about it. And don't, you know, externalize your frustration of just not knowing what's going on to the person who's trying to help you get results.
That being said, you know, I have, you know, to defend the law firm owners, which I often do. Like, I haven't been in SEO meetings where it's like, you know, what have we been doing? It hasn't. Doesn't seem like much right now, so.
[00:29:40] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, results are one thing, you know, but, you know, the work should be pretty visible, like, you know, as far as that's concerned.
But I'll come back to, to your point about the law firm owners need to have some understanding. Just like they're. They get their financial statements, their P. L.
You don't need to be an accountant, but you need to know some numbers and what that means for your firm.
Just like you have to have to deal with, with working with people and understanding people. It's a part of business and you have to understand your marketing so you don't have to be an expert.
[00:30:23] Speaker A: In my experience, a lot of, A lot of law firm owners do enjoy being the CEO and they'll tell me or cmo and they'll tell me like, I'm the CMO of my law firm. And that will never change.
I will challenge them to say, I probably will change because, you know, if you're, if you're growing, you'll reach a certain point where you're doing other things, including going on vacation, business retreats. It's, you know, interviewing vendors, hiring people. That's the kind of stuff that keeps the marketing going because when you're not paying attention to it, it'll dwindle and it'll stop. And, you know, even if you are a wellspring of marketing ideas, which, you know, a lot of business owners tend to be, you know, there's still the question of implementation and leadership on that side. Bscmo. Yeah.
[00:31:10] Speaker B: Yeah. Well Tiffany, I appreciate you sharing a lot of great advice.
Some more stories too just you know from on the agency side to you know, your. The fractional side and kind of how that blends together I think you know I love fractional CMOs. I like that that whole process and you know we've worked with. With quite a few someone to kind of bring it all together. And I do also agree too some things I don't think it should ever take in house because they just don't have the team and the brain power and the, the manpower to, to really do it effectively. And these firms need a lot of help but be there to help them.
[00:31:44] Speaker A: I really appreciate it.
[00:31:46] Speaker B: Yeah. What's.
What's the best way for folks to connect with you, learn more about you and your in your company?
[00:31:54] Speaker A: Well, my website is Sharp Cookie D E V I mark my words. So actually if you visit talktotif1f.com that'll take you to actually like my digital business card. All of my links are there and it's the easier URL you can also Yep.
[00:32:10] Speaker B: On LinkedIn and we connected on LinkedIn. I think I. I saw your stuff posted friends of Ben Glass and Brian Glass and lots of other folks. So Charlie Mann. So. So I saw her and was like well we should probably meet. Here she is. So talk to Tiff. Go learn more about her and her business. I'm sure she'll be happy to answer any questions you might have and anything else you want to leave with. Leave us with before we go.
[00:32:34] Speaker A: Oh, we talked about a lot. I guess not. I just really appreciate you having me on the show. If any of this sounded interesting to look me up, I also have a podcast. I think you'll be able to find the link in my digital business card. But it's sharp strategy. Sweet success. If you're interested and want to listen. Thank you so much. I really appreciate it.
[00:32:53] Speaker B: Absolutely. Thanks so much for joining me and coming on and just kind of, you know, talking through some of the, you know, challenges that the firms face and some solutions too. So everyone, thanks so much for listening as always. Appreciate you and we'll see you out there if you need anything. Reach out out. Want to connect with Tiffany directly. Reach out and I'll make the introduction. So we'll see you all soon. On the next episode.
