Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: What's up, everyone?
This is Kevin with another episode of the Managing Partners podcast. And I'm back with a good friend of mine, and we like to riff. We like to go where we're going to go, but we do have a topic for you today, which is really cool. And I got Chris early here on the show. Thanks for joining me again. What's up, Kevin?
[00:00:19] Speaker B: Thank you so much. It's good to see you. How you doing today?
[00:00:22] Speaker A: Yeah, no good. It's fall day in Virginia here.
Hopefully, no more hurricanes are coming up the coast. We'll see what happens.
[00:00:30] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:00:30] Speaker A: Crazy.
[00:00:30] Speaker B: Florida right now.
[00:00:34] Speaker A: At a rate is that we have probably five plus employees down in Florida. So all good. Checked in with all of them. Nothing crazy.
[00:00:43] Speaker B: Thank God.
[00:00:45] Speaker A: That's good. So, hopefully, well, with other people down there. But today, me and Chris were talking about some topics, and I was like, me and Chris, I can probably record with him once a week, but trying to think of some topics, and he has some cool topics that he sent me, and one just stood out. It was outmaneuvering the 800 pound gorilla in your market. And so if you're listening, especially for PI, those exist. Right? And most markets, these big guys are coming in, spending big dollars, taking over radio, tv, and all of the above. And from a SEO kind of strategy or paid ads online, it gets really challenging and difficult to go against them. So just want to see what Chris has to share. I'll add him my own experience and commentary as well. But, Chris, interested to see what you got to share with us on that?
[00:01:38] Speaker B: No, I appreciate. So, you know, it's no secret law is extremely competitive. Personal injury especially so competitive. We do have these massive firms, and I'm sure everyone on the call can relate.
[00:01:50] Speaker A: Right.
[00:01:50] Speaker B: There's just such keen competition. What I have discovered is that I'm not gonna, you know, I'm not gonna take down John Morgan, so I'm not gonna try to. So I use my strengths and try to minimize my weaknesses. And so I think solo and small firm attorneys can be nimble and adapt and be versatile, where a big, ginormous firm isn't so adapted doing that, I think there's a lot of opportunities, and I can sketch out a few things that we've done at my firm in Boston. We're a personal injury firm, and I can share some things that help us grow, even though we're surrounded by these massive firms, PI firms coming to Boston, I do think there's plenty of work for everyone. We just have to be a little creative, think outside the box to get the cases.
[00:02:38] Speaker A: Absolutely. And you being in Boston, large market. I love Boston, by the way.
I get to go once a year for my wife's company Christmas party in Boston, so I'll be there December 18 19th. So I'll have to hook up, connect.
Yeah, we got to do it. So.
But, yeah, you're in this big market, so you're not on the show here, coming from some small town in the middle nowhere. So, yeah, yeah. Love to hear, you know, what you're doing so others can hopefully learn from that and see how they can replicate it. So, sure.
[00:03:13] Speaker B: I'm a big believer in hiring really good people. Right. If we're intentional about who we're trying to attract, we're gonna get what we attract. If we're kind of arbitrary and willy nilly with who we hire, we're gonna get bad team members potentially. Maybe we get lucky, maybe not. But I really focused on that. So I believe in the power of a solid team. Right. Get really strong people together, rowing in the same direction. You can go at a pretty good clip and be a very strong team. So we have scales quickly. I've taken my lumps. I've had some misses with hiring.
We've also had some hits. We've connected on a few really solid positions, good hires. So we start with job ads. We're very specific who are trying to attract, who are not trying to attract, you know, interviewing. We're really focused on sniffing out does this person have our core values or not? Because I can't run without a great team around me. I can only do so much. Right. A lot of lawyers. You know, Kevin, you talk to so many lawyers every day. Everyone's trying to do things a lot of times by themselves. You need great people around you. So I think that's how you can compete. We haven't even spent any money yet. We're just, you know, for short money putting job ads out, and we're trying to attract those eight players. And I think if you do some real intentional hiring, some personality testing so you can kind of see what you're getting higher on your core values, you get those people on the bus. I think that's a massive advantage that you can play to and leverage as you grow your firm.
[00:04:52] Speaker A: 100%. We hire and fire by core values. We use our core values on a daily basis, which I'm happy to share kind of how we do that, which is in a kind of unique way, every single day. Every single day.
But, yeah, hiring a fire mothers and being like, it's a hell yes or hell no yes.
And, you know, there's some gut feeling that goes into that, too. You got to meet the requirements and the core values, but you have that kind of gut feeling. Like, this doesn't feel right. You should be like, nope, something's not. So, you know, I've had that in the past where I had a gut feeling my partner, like, was in love with them, and I'm just like, didn't say anything, and we don't do that anymore. But.
And then you get some bad hires, and you're like, what? Well, I didn't feel right about them for some reason, you know? And so I think you need to really be strict about what, you know with that and. And what you're saying.
[00:05:44] Speaker B: It's hard. It's hard business, because you're trying to project, is this person gonna fit? How do you know? Like, you're just. You're going with your gut. You're going on some data that you may have, maybe some team members. Right. I think it's good to get some buy in, if you can. Perhaps a stamp of approval from your team, whether you have one person or 30 people. Yeah, we like this person. Or maybe let's give this person a more skeptical look. Right. Maybe not the best fit. I'm a big believer in getting approval because I don't want to be. This one says, okay, Kevin, here's our new turn. I want to make sure. Am I missing something? Is Kevin the right attorney for what we're trying to build here? Whoever. Case manager, whoever, you know, whatever position you're going to be on the team. Right. And then, okay, so we hired the right person.
But that's the first part. I think once they come on the bus, you got to really onboard them the right way and make them quickly see that they've made the right decision. Right. I believe that's really important to demonstrate you made the right decision, because people generally only work in so many places throughout their careers. For the most part, professionals have only so many spots that they land during their working. Their working years. So we want to demonstrate you made the right decision. But we got to train them up, envelop them in our culture, you know, hug, embrace them, to show them that, hey, you made the right decision. We're doing big things. You just made a superb decision by joining our team. Right. A lot of big firms are just, you know, big. Real firms are so massive, and they can't sometimes always pay. Yeah. Yeah. Frankly. And that. That may not bode so well that may not feel so great for that new hire just came on. So again, I'm sure there's a lot of big mess firms that have this dialed in, but this is a soft spot. I feel like you can, you can really take advantage of and maximize at your own firm. And again, you haven't spent any money yet. You're just showing them how to do what you guys do in line with your core values.
So you hire you on board. I think you're in a good spot.
[00:07:41] Speaker A: Yeah. So I'll speak to this a little bit there. Yeah. So if they're coming from a different firm or maybe they've worked at a few firms, they're going to be judging your experience onboarding through what they've had before, and you want to make sure that they're like, wow, this is clearly different. And that's why the best thing that I like, we spent a lot of time on our onboarding. We have a whole team just for onboarding people and clients, separate teams. And so it's great to talk to employee because sometimes I won't meet some of my team members for like a month in some cases.
So my team is the one that's hiring these, everyone versus me going, oh, I want to hire this person. And so it kind of, it's not that way anymore. It used to be. So I'll do like a call, like once a month with all the new folks. We have like 55 people, man. I don't know all these people yet. That's crazy.
And they go. And they go, wow. I'm meeting you, the owner of the leadership. I watched your podcast, onboarding, and this place is truly different than any place I've been. And hearing that from them, that's so cool. We're also trying to, we're trying to say, hey, where could we be done better? You know? Right. And there's always going to be some kind of thing we could do better.
But no, 100% agree with you. And I think that's the most important piece because I do marketing. Your whole team, every single person on their team is your marketing. It is your brand. They're talking to your clients.
You know, everything is. They're like, wow, something's different about early law. Like, it's all the people. Like, I want to refer them business. I want to tell everyone about them. That's what you want to come out of it.
[00:09:24] Speaker B: I hope people just hope people just wrote that down. So I agree. Marketing starts at intake, right? That's when the marketing. Yeah. To that brand new client begins because you want referrals. You want that new client to be a raving fan, and I think that's really important. But just to back up for a second, we just. We're onboarding this person at a high level. We're doing the best we can. Like you said, we innovate the tweak, the process. Little Kaizen, right? Just tweaking, improving continuously. But the people I personally look for, I don't have all the answers. It's just how I've approached it. Approach. This is. I like humble people who truly want to help and serve people, because, again, it's a personal injury law firm. I can't hire arrogant, callous, unempathetic people. It's just not gonna. It's not gonna work well for us, for the client. So I like you actually, like, derive pleasure and fulfillment and, like, serving and helping people, because that's what we are as attorneys. We're serving the public. We're problem solvers. So you give me someone who is humble, I think, in Patrick Lancioni, right, the ideal team player, hungry. I encourage everyone to buy that book, if you haven't read already, anything about Patrick Lancioni is worthwhile. But the ideal team player talks about. Right. I know you're an avid reader, humble, hungry, and smart. Those the people you want right. Onboard them the right way. I think that's how you can control what you can control. Again, I encourage lawyers, don't try to compete. That's the whole point of this talk that we're talking about today, Kevin.
I'm not trying to compete with anyone, but I'm trying to do my thing at the highest level, and I'll see where the chips fall. But I like my chances. If we're very focused, intentional about doing this at a high level, we can be nimble and adapt. We're a bigger firm. It takes a long time to move that boat a little bit in each direction. The small firm can move a little quicker if they can adapt.
[00:11:11] Speaker A: Yeah. You can spend a lot of time looking at your competition and trying to compete, especially when you know you can't in that situation. Right. With, like, a Morgan. Morgan. So it's good to keep an eye on your competition. But how are you, how are you coming up your own unique ideas and innovating yourself and focus on that, the things you can control and just do the best you can with everything you can.
Yeah, I think it gets overwhelming sometimes. I think that all the things you should be working on and all the things you should do super important. I mean, if you hire super fast, you don't have all these things in place.
You know, you're just, you're bringing people in and you're constantly having turnover and you're constantly having problems. And then I know some people get, you know, lawyers especially.
We need somebody, you know, so you might jump the line a little bit. You might skip some steps and say, well, we just have to hire them because we don't have the help.
You know, if your position. Right, though, and your marketing is good, your, your onboarding process and your team shines. Right. They have that culture there. It's like you're going to attract the people not because of the pay. Like, it's going to be a no brainer for them.
And so hiring is a lot easier if you have a great culture.
[00:12:27] Speaker B: Right. You know, I've got team members that recruit other, you know, new team members. And when I, and I love that, I really, you know, encourage the audience to experiment with that. If you haven't already, you can find, you already have great people.
If you don't, you need to find great people, assuming you got some good people, they know good people. So let's make it. We don't need to go fishing outside. Right. We can just fish in, inside these walls to recruit.
But let's, you know, let's be honest and say, okay, sometimes we make hiring mistakes. Right? So again, the bigger firm, they're just growing so rapidly. They just, like you said, they may just have to, like, take on people just to fulfill the operations. But the smaller firm can identify, okay, if we, if we made a mistake, like, we can, we should cut bait with the person because it's not fair to keep this person on the bus. So I encourage you, if you've made a hiring decision that you think someone very bright shared with me recently, the first time you think, did I make a mistake on that hire? Is probably an indication you did.
If you're thinking that even on a basic level, you may have. But the test I like to ask myself is if I can go back in time, enthusiastically rehire this person. It tends to give you at least gives me an answer.
But I think more times than not, if we're super focused. Right. You know, you're very focused on your hiring. You're going to connect more often than you, then you strike out, and that's a great way to compete, I feel like, with the bigger firms.
[00:13:58] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. And again, you pay a lot of money, especially in PI, possibly pay a lot of money for a lead whether or not they came through billboard and they finally found you or they Google Ads or search or whatever, to not have them turn into a referral is a massive opportunity. Right?
[00:14:17] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:14:20] Speaker A: I had a guest on not too long ago. We're talking about intake, and they had a whole department just for client intake. And there's three partners in the firm.
One partner focuses on marketing, the other partner focused on, like, operations, and the other partner is client experience. I think that's what it was called. And so just constantly improving because they're like, we get all these leads clients, how do we make sure that they're going to be referrals in the future?
Otherwise, you're just recycling through new leads constantly. New leads, new leads, new leads. Right? And so your culture, your people, everything influences whether or not they're gonna become a referral in the future for you, whether it's friends or family or, you know, God forbid they have another situation. But you're wasting a lot of money. You're spending a lot of money you don't know about if you're not working on the referral piece of things and the customer client experience, if you will. So.
[00:15:16] Speaker B: Oh, no question. And again, for the solar or small firm lawyer, this is all free stuff, right? Let's talk about culture for a second. You know, it doesn't cost you money to create good culture, right? Show your team love, care, and concern. Again, I said, put your arms around them and just, you know, they know they're in the right spot.
You know, we have great retention, and that's very. That's not an accident. Right?
I had. There was a time where. When I was trying to figure this stuff out, or initially starting in the beginning stages, trying to get this stuff dialed in. I had some departures that was. That was very painful, but over time, you sort of lick your wounds, you get back up, and your culture, I feel like, congeals and tightens, but it takes a lot of time.
But I feel like if you show your team that love, caring, concern, that's how they're gonna treat your clients, that's how you get. I'm a cultural lunatic because I feel like it's the stir that, you know, the straw that stirs the drink.
[00:16:10] Speaker A: I mean, you know, obviously there's a lot of that about culture. Culture's out there a lot, but I think it's. You can also be like, eh, you know, this is like this touchy feely thing that I don't. Whatever. I don't need to do core values. I don't need to do this mission statement. Stupid. You know, I used to think that. I literally used to think this is like, you know, really, do we need that? And, you know, when we had, like, eight people, we were like, okay, let's. Let's do this. You know, we're in a entrepreneurs organization, which is a business group, mastermind group, and we did, like, a whole day workshop, and we're like, okay, whatever. And then we started developing them and work on them and change them and. And dial them in, and now we live by them completely.
So I think as a younger attorney, younger entrepreneur, you're kind of like, eh, whatever, you know, that's. It's not what. It's not for me. I don't need that. Or I'm just a solo don't need that. And I would argue that you need to pay attention and put those things into action 100%.
Because if you want to grow and scale and you don't have those things in place, you're just scaling problems. Right.
[00:17:16] Speaker B: Absolutely. That's. That's well said. Right. Um, can't agree more. When I was a younger attorney, I culture schmultzer. I didn't really even know what it was. But now it's like, it's everything. And it seems like you've. You've done a nice job of figuring that out, you know, in your own company.
[00:17:31] Speaker A: Well, you know, I got my partner, you know, who's he kind of, you know, he likes to take things on and go, okay, we haven't done this. Let's figure this out. And so he's. I give him credit for, you know, taking some of those strides and being like, we got to figure this out. Everyone keeps telling me this. It must be important. And so we've done a good job just to do it. But I've said this probably on the podcast before, but imagine you do get a bad hire. Chris hires the wrong person, his team, something they got by everybody, right?
[00:18:01] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:18:02] Speaker A: And there's some ungenuine people out there. They can, you know, say they do all this and they sound nice, they look nice, and then for some reason, something's off.
But Chris might not notice it.
A good culture will get them out of the company for you.
[00:18:21] Speaker B: That's a really good point. Really.
[00:18:22] Speaker A: They go, Chris, something ain't right about Sally. And that's when the red flags go off, and your team will, because they don't want the culture being tainted.
They want to be there. It's their company.
They have, let's say it was ownership, not real ownership. But it's, what do you call it?
[00:18:44] Speaker B: I can't think I'm with you.
[00:18:46] Speaker A: Not emotional ownership. They have literally, like, ownership of your company. This is their company, right?
[00:18:52] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. And to me, Kevin, good culture would be, you know, anyone on my team, I don't care about your position, coming to my office and, like, pounding at my desk, he's the wrong guy. She's not the right person. I want that spirited dialogue because I'm like, oh, man, we got a problem.
But what I'm happy about is that person came to me because they care, because they care about taking care of this culture. Precious egg that we've worked our butts off to give life to and expand and bolster. So that, to me, is good culture. Okay, we swung and miss on this, on this person. But someone is going to tell me that because I may not work with that person a lot. I don't really maybe know that person very well. That's, that's a good sign. But another thing I want to mention, right. And again, a big topic here is, is, is performing at a high level without spending a lot of money because a lot of, again, small, you know, solo smart from attorneys. They're, they're cash strapped. They just don't have unlimited funds, cash access, like a yemenite big grill from does. But the client service, right? I'm culture obsessed and client service obsessed. Those things, those things align. We have a core value is five star client service. So it doesn't cost you a lot of money to make people feel amazing, right? The Ritz Carlton, they definitely spend money to make you feel amazing. If they screw up, they're going to turn you around and make you feel amazing. But, like, you got to treat the clients like gold. I swear, when you do that, you get reviews. What reviews get you is your referrals. Raving fans.
See, those things, I think are low hanging fruit. If you're focused, you're intentional. You can nimbly and sort of, in a versatile way, improve, whereas the big firm, it takes them time to innovate these things, right?
[00:20:41] Speaker A: Oh, yeah.
[00:20:42] Speaker B: Big fan of client service.
[00:20:44] Speaker A: Well, you speak about reviews. The thing about your employees and when they're interviewing, like, I have a few people on my team interview a person, so. But that person's always like, how do you like working there, right? And their review of working here, right, is securing that person that we want, wanting to also work there. And so they have those conversations. And so it's not just your client reviews, but it's your employees like, what are they saying about you to the new hires? Right. And if you're trying to attract this best person that you want, that's gonna go a long way.
Again, it is your marketing, right? It is. It is everything.
That first call, how your employee sounds on the phone, how you handle the clients. I mean, all that is your marketing. And so that's how you can be attractive, right?
[00:21:37] Speaker B: Absolutely.
[00:21:38] Speaker A: If I'm a client calling the big guy down the street because he's advertising everywhere, and then I land on your desk at the same time, you know, what's that? Experience difference, right. And who am I going to go with?
[00:21:49] Speaker B: 100%? I'm with you. And let's keep in mind, a lot. Not every. Not every potential or actual client wants a big firm. They may want some handholding. They may want a little bit more of a smaller, you know, firm feel, because that's what they're looking for. So lean into that hard right. You're not the right lawyer for everybody, and that's okay. You don't want to be. Right. But for those people who do want to retain you, you know, we got to get them on the. We got to get them signed up, right? We can't. It starts at intake. I think that's when the client experience begins, right? We talked about the marketing starts at intake. Client experience starts at intake.
Let's just, you know, say fast forward for a second, right? The case is over. That's not the end of the relationship. There's still a client, and there should be a client for life because you're sending them newsletters. You know, we prolifically communicate with our former clients, Kevin, because we want referrals. We want to stay top of mind. Right? So that relationship, you know, once. Once they sign, you know, that client signs today, they should be, you know, they should never forget about you. So let's, you know, market to them and stay in touch with them. Send them birthday cards, because they will forget about you. I can speak from experience. If you don't stay in touch and really be intentional about that. We get a lot of referrals because we're focused on staying in touch with you. And no one ever, I can tell you, maybe one or two people said, hey, take me off your newsletter list. It's like, oh, good, you know, you're off. But I don't care if they throw my newsletter in the trash. They see my name every month. So we're top of mind, right? That's. That's all right.
[00:23:18] Speaker A: Well, you know, I used to be so I'm in a digital marketing company. So if it isn't digital sucks. You can't track it.
Totally. Not me. Not me anymore. Because if I say, if you were gonna be a client and I called your office to check because we had a meeting and you didn't show up or something, and then I call your office, and I don't get anybody for a little while or can't get to you, and so then I go, oh, man, what if I send this guy leads? Like, who's answering the phone? What's the experience? Like, what does he do after that? So if my client can't have things in place to give a good client experience and have follow up to build referral sources and keep those alive, we're just like a lead machine for them. And that's not what I want to be, and that's not a good way to run a business. And so I have a lawyer be like, yeah, I just want. I need ten more leads a week. Can you guys do that for me? It's like, okay, well, what does that mean for you? Like, what does that do for your business? Can you handle that? What's your process? Like, do you have intake squared away? Probably not.
How can you improve it? But it's, you know, gone are the days just, like, signing you behind without trying to do a little bit more. And some clients don't want to hear any of that, and they're not a good fit.
Like, Kevin, we don't want to hear about any of that stuff. Like, we just need more clients. Okay, well, you know, are you really going to be happy with just more clients?
I don't know.
So it's going deeper than that. And understanding, you know, is the firm that wants to market more really there to do the right things, to do what you're doing right, to care about their team employees, take care of the clients, and then hopefully those leads that they already paid for, that they converted, they're investing back in to keep top of mind with. Right?
[00:25:06] Speaker B: Yeah. Lawrence can get lazy sometimes. Hey, Kevin, I need more leads. That's my panacea for my problems. No, no, you probably have enough lead volume. You just need to convert drip campaigns with these leads because you're driving leads. It's not a leads problem. I'm going to Bethe. It's a conversion problem, an organizational, systemic sales problem.
[00:25:27] Speaker A: Sales problem.
[00:25:28] Speaker B: Yeah, 100%.
[00:25:30] Speaker A: I got an awesome.
Yeah, yeah. I got a great lawyer client of ours that is in a rural area. I was going to mention that real quick. I know you got a jump, but a lot of success if you're, you know, think about the 800 pound gorilla in the middle of a city center or metropolitan area.
And, you know, I've seen so much success with lawyers that are outside of the area or in between.
Lord Lloyd bourgeois comes to mind. He's a.
[00:25:57] Speaker B: He's a friend of mine. Lloyd's a great guy.
[00:25:59] Speaker A: Saw him at GLM, and he's between two big areas, but he's in the middle. So he plays the local community law firm card, and he gets business from both those big areas plus his small towns, you know, have another lawyer that's in the middle of. Is in Washington state, middle of the mountains.
And he calls me up, say, man, we have a sales problem. You know, we're generating a lot of leads that he never had, and now he has a sales problem. So then I connected with my friend Ben leader. He's a guest on the show.
[00:26:30] Speaker B: Ben's a friend of mine, too. Ben's a great guy.
[00:26:33] Speaker A: We knew everyone. My guy, Ben, took his firm from 170 cases a year to 500 with zero extra marketing, no extra advertising. They had a big intake and sales problem. 500 take dialed in five x. Basically by just focusing on what's going on in the front office and the front end here. So check out that episode. That's a good one.
[00:27:01] Speaker B: It was a good episode. Those are both two good guys, Lloyd and Lloyd Bourgeois. Ben Leader, good friends of mine. Reach out to them, the audience. Definitely good people to know.
[00:27:11] Speaker A: Yeah. Especially when we're talking about this topic, you know, dealing with big competition, big cities, big areas.
To two gentlemen that understand that and have done well with it, so well, Chris, I know you got to go. You have kids, I think, or something to pick up.
I probably got something to do at home with kids as well, so. But always a great time. You know, just riffing with you and talking about stuff. You know, culture is so important. I think it's just something that can be a loose topic sometimes, and people hear it, and, you know, they're not really serious about it. But take it from me and Chris that it's probably the most important part of your whole business, and it's going to flow through everything that you do, so clients will notice it, employees will notice it, and you're going to.
[00:27:55] Speaker B: Stuff matters.
[00:27:56] Speaker A: Yeah, 100% big time.
All right, well, that's. That's. That's one way to auto maneuver the big guy. So get serious about this stuff. Reach out to chris if you want to connect with chris, and you don't know, chris. Let me know. I'll connect you.
[00:28:10] Speaker B: I'm all over LinkedIn. I'm easy to find on social media, and if you want, I have an email blast I send out to hundreds of lawyers throughout the country. Go to. It's completely free, practicetipoftheweek.com. practicetipoftheweek.com. You get in my email newsletter for attorneys. I try to hit you with valuable needle booming content each and every week. So I got a lot of lawyers, not less. I try to give my best stuff every week. So join that list, practicetipoftheweek.com, but don't be a stranger. I love talking about this stuff, Kevin. That's why I like your conversations. We just, we geek out. We're into this. You know, we. We're into it. It's fun, man.
[00:28:47] Speaker A: I appreciate it. Yeah. And just follow Chris on LinkedIn, his post, I think pretty much every day when I wake up, like, oh, there's a new Chris post.
[00:28:57] Speaker B: Can't get rid of this guy.
[00:28:58] Speaker A: Yeah, he's everywhere. I and I always go, hey, I like your hat and that shirt. Where's mine? And he never said, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:29:06] Speaker B: We got to get you some swag, and I want some show up in.
[00:29:09] Speaker A: Boston to get my stuff.
We'll figure it out.
[00:29:13] Speaker B: We'll hook you up, man.
[00:29:15] Speaker A: I'll see you at Laudi Gras.
[00:29:16] Speaker B: I'm excited. That's gonna be a good one. That's gonna be a fun one. I'm excited.
[00:29:20] Speaker A: This episode might be out after Laudi Gras, if you're watching. It was great to see you there.
We had a great time, so.
All right, crystal, I appreciate everything, everyone, thanks for tuning in, listening to knuckleheads talk, and we'll see you on the next episode.
[00:29:39] Speaker B: Thanks, Kevin.
[00:29:41] Speaker A: Yep.